I decided to use some of my frequent-flyer miles and just booked a trip to Argentina for three weeks beginning November 15. I'd like to try and combine seeing Buenos Aires and getting some Spanish-language instruction there along with trying to see at least a little bit of the rest of this very-large country. Any suggestions from other Madridman members who have already been to Argentina would be very much appreciated.

I am also going to be in Argentina because of my Fulbright teacher exchange. I will be leaving in July and returning to NY around Christmas time. I am hoping to travel around the country too! It seems like the distances from city to city are enormous and that it is common to take overnight buses.

I will be in the Northwestern most part of Argentina, in the city of Jujuy. I have been reading a lot about the country and the area I will be living in, but I am just as clue-less as you...so, I hope that others respond to your post.

My neighbors next door are from Argentina, if you have any specific questions let me know and I can ask them.

Oh, how envious I am! I have been to Argentina, but just to Buenos Aires, and for a very short stay. It was very nice. The highlight for me was the food. (I adore food!) The steaks were truly out of this world - I've never had such fantastic beef anywhere else. The accompanying salads were also excellent. It's a lovely city with a European feel. Wish I could help you more... Do let us know how it goes, and esperanza, enhorabuena!

We went to Buenos Aires twice, loved it. Many different neighborhoods (I was told their was a chinatown, we went and saw two or three restauraunts close to each other, don´t bother). Stayed right bon Florida and Corriente. Awesome place to stay, and cheapish hotels, a good one was called Liberty or New York or something, but it has a big Statue of Liberty on its sign. Friendly and clean. Let me know how it is expensive-wise. when we went the economic crisis was in full swing and things were extremely cheap. Just wondering how it has picked up there. You can also take a boat/bus ride to Montevideo, Uruguay (where we lived). The boat is about 3 hours and the bus after about3-4 as well. Brazil is not too far off although the boarder town (chui) is nothing all that great, and if your ffrom the us you´ll have to pay $100 for a visa. Remember the seasons are opposite the US. It´s now almost full winter there. No snow or anything, but forget the beach.

I thought you'd been banned Richie!

ditravelphoto: richie was never banned but did lose the right to post messages due to circumstantial evidence against him - which now seems unsubstantiated. He's since been reinstated. But don't worry. I'll keep my eye on everyone for suspicious behavior. You can be sure of that.

Now, back to the topic.....

Last weekend over Memorial Day I used a 25% Borders discount coupon to purchase four books on Argentina and/or Buenos Aires specifically as well as a couple of maps. My inclination is to spend most of the time in Buenos Aires and attend Spanish-language classes at a school there. Last year in Madrid I found this to be a wonderful way to meet people. (I wish there was a BuenosAiresman.com web site.) One of the instructors at Instituto Cervantes in New York who is from Argentina has recommended to me a couple of schools as well as a place to rent an apartment for a short-stay. I might also fly up to Iguazú Falls for a long weekend.
Thanks jacch for offering to pass along any questions I may have to your Argentine neighbors. As my plans firm up I may take you up on this.
It would be fun, esperanza, to compare notes on our respective experiences either in Buenos Aires or in New York after we return in December.

Arthur, Iguazu is well worth a trip - it's stunning. But the best side to be on (best views of the falls) is the Brazilian side, and for that you'll need a visa. You may want to visit Brazil anyway, since you're in the area. I actually liked Brazil more than Argentina, and Rio de Janeiro just blew me away. I'd love to return some day. Granted, I saw little of Argentina - you'll get to know it much better. (I spent part of my childhood in the rainforest north of Brazil - a lot of what I saw in Brazil reminded me of it.)

Arthurg:

My sister just visited Argentina, Chile and Brazil. She suggests that you spend most of your time in Buenos Aires, unless you like rural sight-seen. She mentioned that instead of trying to visit more of Argentina you should go to Rio de Janeiro, that it's so worth it. She visited also the wineries in Chile and says they are fine, but worth only a short visit. She wishes she had spent most of her time between Buenos Aires and Rio. She also said that you save some luggage space and money for very affordable high-quality wool sweaters and leather jackets in Argentina. She brought me a sweater from Argentina, and people keep asking where I got it from, and I can’t resist just saying...Argentina!!!

Most of the wealthy Argentinian people I became acquainted with at Universities in the U.S. were Argentinian; but they lived in Uruguay (Punta del Este, for example). I was in an MBA Class with one: He celebrated his 21st Birthday at the U.S. University and his birthday present was a 30,000 hectare ranch in Argentina.

I guess Uruguay is where Argentinian Movers and Shakers live their high rolling lifestyle.

Eddie:

What were you trying to say???

Anyway the wealthy part was really clear to me.

Most people from Argentina I've met say things are going really good in Argentina. They are probably in the middle-upper class.

Eddie: It just came to my mind...How he did to be just 21 and be already studying an MBA here in the U.S, most times you don't finish college until you are 22 years old. Anyway, he probably was wealthy...and smart!!

jabch writes: Many wealthy Argentine landowners live in Uruguay. I may have been mistaken about what birthday he was celebrating: maybe his 25th?? IMHO he was not a 'prodigy:' In our MBA Program we were assigned to groups to address & solve a business problem: sometimes two or three International students would be 'teamed' with an American student, hopefully one with 'real world' experience. Rodrigo, my Argentine team-mate had no business experience whatsoever; and he was not 'the sharpest knife in the drawer.'

By the wording, still sounds like I was guilty of something.

I'm not very familiar with the US system of higher education: do you first go to college after high school and graduate at about 22, and is this equivalent to a bachelor's degree?

Yes Pia. In fact, in the U.S., they have what they call professional schools. Law and Medicine are professional schools for example. So unlike many European countries, in the U.S., you can't attend law school until you finish your college degree.

Ok, but what do you you study at college if you want to go to law school? And how common is it that you go on to master's?

Our system has been pretty different from most of the European schools too; I was always shocked how young people were when they graduated in other EU countries until I realized they we're getting their bachelor's, and in Finland you usually go straight to master's and only get the bachelor's if you need to drop out or take a break from your studies for some reason. I think Holland has had the same. But we have the Bologna process going on and from this fall on, all students are going to do the 2-part degree. We also have "polytechnics" where you study more non-theoretic subjects like tourism, media, health care etc. In some other countries like Sweden those are taught in Universities, but Swedish education sucks anyway

Pia: You can study whatever you want. Unless you want to go into patent law you have to have a college degree in science (any area, chemistry, math, whatever).

As to master's degrees in the U.S., most people don't study them. They are seen as very research or academic oriented. However, in some areas are more common or practical approach like in business, medicine, and education.

I think your average American feels he/she can do good enough without advanced education. Experience is very well paid.

Probably true. Here most top jobs require a higher degree so it's become the norm lately. But thanks for the info!

jabch writes: In my own postgraduate education I have found that Doctoral Degrees are more research or Academic oriented. In both the 'hard' sciences loke Physics, Chemistry, etc. and the Behavioral Sciences (Psychology, Sociology, Political Science, etc.) a Master's Degree is an absolute requirement for someone looking for work in the field. There are Research/Academic Degrees (M.S. in Poli-Sci or M.S. in Accounting or some other Business area) and there are MBA and MPA Degrees for Practical Applications. I have both an earned MBA and an MPA Degree.

But first you have to 'get your ticket punched' (i.e., have a credential that gets you past the gatekeeper).

When I was going for my psych undregrad, we were told that a masters was useless, had to go for the full doctorate if you wanted to work. However a masters in social work, which I was told is the same as for psych but with a different title, was good enough.

arthurg, I have been looking at the Frommers message board to get some info on Argentina and I think it is chocked full of information. Just wanted to let you know of it. Also, I bought the Moon guide to Argentina and it is also quite good. I am leaving in about 2 weeks, so things are getting crazy around my house trying to pack for 5 months! If you get to the northwest, then please let me know...by Nov. I should know the area a bit and I would be happy to get together...just let me know.
On another note, I wish I could attend your MM get together here in NY, but unfortunately I am not able to spare an evening. Hope you all have fun...(say hi to Joe Sambuca for me!)

Travel and Leisure Magazine this month has this article on Buenos Aires that was interesting. Thought you may enjoy it too! I leave in 12 days and I am going crazy preparing!

In planning my trip I was thinking of getting the VONAGE internet phone system. A friend recently got one and she is happily using it in Mexico. So, I thought it would be fabulous to have during my stay in northern Argentina. I was wondering if anyone knows if it is difficult (and/or impossible) to get a broadband connection to the internet in Argentina, specifically outside of Buenos Aires...in the city of Jujuy? I was informend that in orderr to use this system it needs a DSL/Broadband connection. Is there anyone who knows anything about this? I need to do this very soon, since I am leaving in a few days. Thanks!!

Thanks esperanza for your insights & suggestions concerning Frommers, Travel & Leisure,etc. So far all I've done for my November trip is book my free flight on Delta. I'll probably spend most of my time in Buenos Aires where I hope to take some Spanish classes, but might try to visit other parts of the country on the weekends. So hopefuly our paths might still cross. In any event, I hope you have a wonderful trip and please by all means keep in touch either via email or through this messageboard. Then in January we can get together and compare photos, notes, impressions, etc.

here is an article from the Washington Post:

Buenos Aires, Always in Style

By Cindy Loose

There's a high beauty quotient among the people of Argentina, and they dress with flair. Even women in jeans have that ability to throw on an ordinary scarf or shawl in such a way that they end up looking elegant.

My friend Pam and I look at each other immediately after arriving on the streets of Buenos Aires. We've been friends since college days -- so long we can sometimes read each other's minds. She says it first: "Haircuts."

We stop in the first salon we pass. At these prices, we might as well get highlights, too. A wash, cut, highlights and blow-dry cost 37 pesos each -- about $13.

Try doing that in Paris, which I've come to think of as the Buenos Aires of Europe.

I came to Argentina last month hoping to find a viable alternative to Europe, where the almighty euro is still giving the U.S. dollar a firm beating, recent gains notwithstanding. I happily anticipated that I would find things cheaper here -- after all, the Argentine peso went into free fall back in 2002. But how exceptional would the bargains be, and would it really be a true substitute -- close enough to the original to satisfy the traveler yearning for a European-style experience?

Matter of fact, during my days and nights in Buenos Aires, I had to keep reminding myself that I was in South America. Walking wide boulevards lined with fine, European-style architecture, past chic restaurants and bistros where people linger over meals, you sometimes feel as if you are in Paris. Late at night, though, the bright lights and indefinable sense of energy in the streets reminded me more of New York -- although New York is much more ethnically diverse. Porteños, as residents of Buenos Aires are called, are predominantly of European extraction.

Basically, visiting Buenos Aires is like going to Europe and finding that everything is half-off American prices. Plus you've got coupons that knock another 20 percent off select goods and services.

Granted, you still have to get there. But our package price of $900 each -- about the cost of airfare to Europe this summer, or to Argentina, for that matter -- included airfare direct from Dulles, six nights in a very nice, centrally located hotel with breakfasts, airport transfers in a private car with a tour guide to greet us, and a half-day bus tour of the city.

If we'd been extremely frugal -- eating in the cheapest restaurants and taking public buses for 30 cents -- we could have gotten by on less than $200 for all other expenses that week. We chose instead to enjoy a few affordable luxuries. This included taking cabs (after all, the meters start at 55 cents), great meals in beautiful settings, a day trip out of the city and an overnight trip to an estancia, one of the many former estates where the wealthiest aristocrats of Argentine society once lived and trained their polo ponies during the months they were not vacationing in Europe.

Unfortunately, we couldn't ignore the bargains in shop windows. After all, our salon "savings" alone could buy us three or four pairs of fashionable leather shoes, or four or five stylish woolen sweaters, or maybe a pair of those boots of buttery soft pigskin, with a purse to match.

Of course, this tourist windfall comes at the expense of the Argentine people who, despite a stable government at the moment, still struggle with the fallout of many years of inept and corrupt leadership. Just a few years ago, the Argentine peso was pegged to the American dollar, one for one. During our trip, banks were giving about 2.8 pesos for one dollar. Even that apparently did not reflect the true state of the peso: Most shops and restaurants were happy to take American dollars and give a flat three-to-one exchange.

Yet the city -- or at least the central areas that tourists frequent -- shows few, if any, signs of the financial collapse that the country has endured. Restaurants, bars and tango venues are filled with locals. Parks and buildings both public and private seem wellkept. You see fewer obviously destitute people than you would in similar neighborhoods in American cities. Although the U.S. State Department warns of petty crime, I feel safe walking in busy downtown neighborhoods both day and night.

I repeatedly wonder aloud how the city and so many of its inhabitants can continue to look so good. The answer that keeps coming back boils down to this: Looking good is a central tenet of the culture in this country that was once one of the richest on Earth. When Argentine actor Fernando Lamas would repeat his familiar phrase, "You look mahvelous, darling" -- a phrase famously vamped by comedian Billy Crystal -- he was summing up the ethos of his country.

Perhaps native-born Patricia Foster gives the best insight into current-day Argentina. Foster, who works long hours managing a tourist ranch about two hours outside the city, is one of those classy women who throw on a shawl and look as if they just stepped out of a Town & Country ad. Life is tough, she says, and she's lucky to have a job. Unlike her parents did with her, she is unable to help her grown daughter, whose monthly earnings don't even pay her rent. But it's important to keep up appearances.

"We live here like in the theater," Foster says. I must say: It's a very good show.

The Spanish were the first European settlers to arrive and conquer here, and some of the churches built by Jesuit missionaries remain in Buenos Aires. But subsequent waves of European immigrants have left their mark. There are about as many Italian restaurants in the city as there are steakhouses, and you can raise a glass in an Irish tavern with a Spanish-speaking O'Donnell or Flaherty, or have a German strudel in a cafe in an old French mansion.

About 9 million of Argentina's 37 million people live in and near the port city, which boasts 47 separate and distinct neighborhoods.

When I learn that our hotel is in the central business district, I assume it will be a long walk from anything other than canyons of office buildings. But it turns out Buenos Aires doesn't have soulless high-rise neighborhoods. The ground floors of office buildings are used for retail, so our hotel on Reconquista is surrounded with chic stores and restaurants, the streets lively with pedestrians from early morning until late at night. As long as we stash our cameras and keep our mouths shut, Pam and I are mistaken for locals. People handing out fliers trying to entice us into restaurants or stores routinely address us in Spanish. When it becomes clear we're from the United States, we get an enthusiastic greeting. Argentines, we're told, still remember with gratitude Jimmy Carter's call for human rights at a time they were under the thumbs of a right-wing military dictatorship. They still fondly recall that then-first lady Hillary Clinton met with the mothers and grandmothers of "the disappeared." (Amnesty International has documented the disappearance of 9,000 people at the hands of the military dictatorship that ruled from 1976 to 1983. Estimates of disappearances range up to 40,000. Each Thursday, mothers of the disappeared rally at the Plaza de Maya, reminding the current government that they still seek answers to the fate of family members who vanished.)

Although we've taken an 11-hour, overnight flight from Dulles, the one-hour time difference means no jet lag, and we hit the streets immediately upon arrival.

We quickly realize we don't have to plan our days. Like a handful of great cities around the world, Buenos Aires is a place where you can walk aimlessly and be assured of finding numerous things of interest. It's got that palpable sense of energy: Street performers pop up all over the city, and dozens of museums and other attractions are concentrated in several downtown neighborhoods. Our meandering path on our first day through the Centro and Retiro neighborhoods leads past museums dedicated to art, crime and forensics, photography, city history, currency, ethnography. Given that entrance fees range from 30 cents to a couple of dollars, you can pop in and out without feeling obligated to absorb every detail of every exhibit.

We've planned our trip so that we'll be free on a Sunday, to take in the San Telmo market. The neighborhood is considered slightly dicey at night, but on Sundays, it feels as if all of Buenos Aires has gathered for a massive street fair.

A brochure we've picked up at a downtown information kiosk lists the addresses of 92 clubs for dancing tango, the sultry heart and most internationally recognized symbol of Buenos Aires. But if your interest in tango is casual and you just want to see a few couples perform, you'll find them here on the streets, dancing for tips.

Classical guitarists are also playing for tips. Miming is a popular art form here, and costumes are elaborate. I didn't know there were so many mimes in the entire world. It's as if they had an international convention here, and everyone stayed.

And of course the main attraction: stuff. The market offers new, used and antique goods of every conceivable variety. I'm tantalized by big things -- garden sculptures, elaborately decorated wrought iron gates, old wooden doors for which I have no use but love anyway, and huge copper pots and pans. I settle on some easily packed handmade jewelry, and vow to return some day for the pots.

For four days and four nights, we walk. Most of the time we have no specific destination in mind but simply explore neighborhoods. The most elegant and most unabashedly European: the adjoining neighborhoods of Recoleta and Palermo.

The French-style mansions in Recoleta date from the early 19th century, testimony to the vast wealth that once poured into Buenos Aires from the nearby pampas, or fertile grasslands. The neighborhood is perhaps most famous abroad for being home to the Recoleta Cemetery. The historic, 10-acre cemetery is crowded with about 7,000 grand mausoleums housing Argentina's elite. With the help of a cemetery groundskeeper, we find the gravesite of Eva Peron. Fifty years after her death, she remains a controversial national figure, but she clearly has her long-enduring fans, judging from the flowers they place in the iron filigree of the mausoleum doors.

Perhaps the greatest testament to the fabled wealth and cultural stature of Buenos Aires: Teatro Colon, the world-renowned, 2,500-seat opera house opened in 1908. Its auditorium, in French baroque style, is lauded by opera and symphony buffs for superb acoustics. The walls of the foyer are made with three kinds of European marble; the floors are mosaics of Venetian tiles; overhead is a Parisian-style stained-glass dome.

The great stars of the opera have all sung here: Maria Callas, Enrico Caruso, Luciano Pavarotti. Mikhail Baryshnikov called it "the most beautiful of the theaters I know," and Baryshnikov knows some theaters.

Open for guided tours, the opera house is also home to the city's ballet and opera companies and three orchestras. A good seat for the opera costs about $35, or you can buy a cheap seat for little more than a dollar.

My favorite spot in the city: the riverside promenade in Puerto Madero, an old warehouse district turned into a modern, hip neighborhood. Hovering over the neighborhood like a giant bird about to take flight is a gleaming white footbridge designed by Santiago Calatrava, the highly lauded Spanish architect whose awards include the 2005 Gold Medal from the American Institute of Architects. Calatrava, whose work was chosen for inclusion in the rebuilding at New York's World Trade Center site, has created a bridge that is a poetic vision of a tall ship, with teak flooring, lights reminiscent of portholes, and soaring beams and cables that are like masts and rigging. In the evening, lights from the bridge shimmer on the river. In the day, natural light bounces off the water and plays along the surface of the bridge.

The Estancia La Porteña, about 90 miles outside Buenos Aires, is a vivid reminder of the great wealth and power once enjoyed by Argentine aristocrats. In the early 20th century, the estancia, or ranch, covered 14,826 acres, or more than 23 square miles.

Today, the ranch occupies about 700 acres. Polo star Manuel Guiraldes, grand-nephew of Argentine writer Ricardo Guiraldes, still trains polo ponies on the estancia, but takes in guests at the colonial-style home on the grounds. It is one of about 1,000 estancias in Argentina that allows guests to experience a taste of the aristocratic life, typically for about $90 per person per night, including meals, alcoholic drinks and horseback riding.

We'll be staying down the road at La Bamba, the first estancia to open its doors to paying guests and one of three just outside the appealing little colonial town of San Antonio de Areco. Totally torn about which of the three we should have chosen, we decide to at least see all three.

Manuel's wife, Queca, meets us outside the stables, where polo ponies are being saddled, and shows us the grounds, including a Parisian-designed garden and stands of sycamore trees, pines and larches. The property is laced with wooded riding trails. Inside, each guest room has a fireplace and is furnished with country antiques. Guests are also welcome to lounge and read in the studio where Guiraldes, who died in 1927, wrote his books about the life of the gauchos (Argentine cowboys), or in the living room where the writer's grand-nephew displays his polo trophies.

I'm filled with envy at the pastoral life lived on a former estate, but Keka tells me somewhat wistfully that life here is very different from that of two generations ago. "They used to live six months in Paris, six months in Argentina," she says. "They sent their children to Switzerland or England to be educated."

We head to our estancia, La Bamba, about 10 miles from La Porteña. We've hired a driver to take us from Buenos Aires, after numerous people warned us against taking on manic traffic in and just outside the city. He turns up a long lane lined with towering sycamore trees, and we enter the life of country ease. Hammocks hang between trees next to a swimming pool on the property's vast lawn. Hundreds of parrots and parakeets flit through the air, which is filled with the smell of beef roasting over an open wood fire.

We're greeted by one of the owners, Isabel Aldao, who tells us we have time for a ride before lunch. We mount with the help of a gaucho, who leads us to the nearest estancia, La Ombu, a couple of miles away.

As our horses trot along a dirt road on the vast empty plain, I feel as if I've entered a time warp. The feeling grows when we come within sight of Estancia El Ombu, where a colonial mansion built in 1880 by an Argentine general sits on a wide expanse of parklike lawn dotted with oaks, palms, eucalyptus, magnolias and a massive native tree, the ombu. Wisteria in bloom hang from the balustrades of a two-story porch that wraps around the mansion.

We take a quick tour of the elegant rooms and -- still divided about which of the three estancias is best -- ride back to La Bamba. There, employees have set up tables with white tablecloths on the lawn and are passing out hors d'oeuvres. With other guests who have come from Buenos Aires just for the day, we dine in the style of aristocrats, with wine from the area's malbec grapes and great slabs of beef slowly cooked over an open fire.

La Bamba, its main house a sprawling, one-story adobe building painted a pinkish red, was built in 1830 to serve as a post house along the Camino Real, the road that linked Buenos Aires to the pampas and the northern reaches of the country. A brick gaucho bar, or pulperia , a few yards from the house serves as a gathering place for residents who ride from town and from nearby ranches on weekends to socialize. "You feel you are living in the 1880s," says Isabel, whose father opened La Bamba in 1986 as a guest-house.

We lie in hammocks watching some of the 200 species of birds that frequent the estancia, as day guests mount horses or take horse-drawn carriage rides. When they return, we all gather in the pulperia for a show. Four expert performers demonstrate typical gaucho folk dancing, then invite guests to join them in tango.

On this weekday visit, we happen to be the only overnight guests, so it feels as if we own the place. Our evening is spent quietly reading before a roaring fire, to cut the chill after sundown, and on walks beneath a starlit sky. It's the height of elegance, country style.

On our last day in the city, before an evening flight, I return to a shop near my hotel to try on a leather jacket I've been admiring all week. Turns out it doesn't fit. No problem, says the saleswoman. A seamstress appears, takes my measurements, offers me a selection of leather to choose from and heads to the factory. She promises me a tailored, handmade jacket, for $140, by 4 p.m.

While Pam goes off for a manicure -- $2.50 plus tip -- I settle in for a proper English tea in an elegant tearoom in the Carlton Hotel. The world passes by the window outside my table in the room with mahogany wainscoting as I eat finger sandwiches, scones with cream, and jam and pastries from a tiered silver platter. It costs me about $7. Those on less forgiving budgets are welcome to linger at the table and share the food; the second person simply orders tea. That way, it's tea for two for about $8.50 -- an economy measure that Argentines are enjoying at tables all around me.

Normal life will soon overtake me when I head back home. But at the moment, I am feeling, and perhaps even looking, marvelous.

Details: Buenos Aires

GETTING THERE: United has nonstops to Buenos Aires from Dulles, currently for $1,247, and flights that connect in Miami or Atlanta are offered from all three Washington area airports by American, Delta and Air Canada. One-stop fares are starting at $860 round trip, but Web specials sometimes drop as low as $650.

GETTING AROUND: An extensive bus and subway network offers cheap transport, with tickets starting at about 25 cents. Taxis are also a relative bargain: the meter starts at just over 50 cents. But because of safety concerns, don't flag down street taxis; call or hail radio cabs from reputable companies, including Radio Taxi Sur (011-54-11-463-82000), Radio Taxi 5 Minutos (011-54-11-4523-1200) and Radio Taxi Diez (011-54-11-4585-5007).

To visit an estancia (ranch) near San Antonio de Areco, a car and driver (which can be arranged independently or through the estancia you are visiting) generally costs about $50 each way. There are also comfortable modern buses from the city to San Antonio de Areco, and the estancia owner can pick you up there. My preference: Have a driver pick you up at your hotel the morning of your departure, instead of wasting time finding the bus station. After your estancia stay, ask for a drop-off at the colonial town of San Antonio de Areco, buy a ticket (about $5) for a later bus trip back to the city, and spend a pleasant afternoon visiting the town, its gaucho museum and silver shops. Shops owned by artisans are spread out and can be hard to find. You can arrange a personal tour, for $15 (half-day) or $25 (full day), by contacting Magdalena Ramirez at magdalena@areconet.com.ar .

WHEN TO GO: Buenos Aires has a mild climate. Average temperatures in January, the hottest month: about 74 degrees. June, July and August are the coldest; average temperatures all three months are about 50 degrees. The shoulder seasons -- spring and fall -- are perhaps the best time to visit the city. Of course, if you plan to use the city as a springboard for visiting other parts of the country, plan for temperature variations as drastic as those in the United States.

ESTANCIAS: The three guest estancias in San Antonio de Areco are Estancia la Bamba (011-54-2326-456-293, http://www.la-bamba.com.ar ); El Ombu de Areco (011-54-11-4710- 2795, http://www.estanciaelombu.com ); and Estancia la Porteña (011-54-2326-453770, http://www.estancialaportenia.com.ar ). Overnight visits -- meals, tea and riding included -- start at about $95 per person in a bedroom or apartment. You can also arrange to visit for the day and have lunch, then stay in the town of San Antonio de Areco, where a double room in the simple but pleasant La Aurora (387 Matheu, 011-54-2326-45-4219) begins at about $30 a night, including breakfast.

AIR/HOTEL PACKAGES: My Web search turned up packages beginning at about $850 for a week's stay, but in some cases required two connections, and in others charged a single supplement for both my friend and me because our trips originated in different cities. Frustrated, I turned to a travel agent. At Travel Place in Potomac (301-299-4850), an agent familiar with Buenos Aires found a $900 six-night package with a nonstop flight from Dulles, and no single supplements. Find other travel agents, who typically do not charge a fee for packages, through the American Society of Travel Agents at http://www.astanet.com .

Check under "Packages" in this week's "What's the Deal?" column (Page P3) for a $649 Buenos Aires package from Miami.

WHERE TO EAT: The average citizen in Argentina consumes 130 pounds of beef a year -- more than twice as much as Americans. One of the most popular steakhouses: La Cabaña Las Lilas (516 Ave. Alicia Moreau de Justo, in Puerto Madero). Entrees begin at about $10. A hip choice: Radioset (1130 Ave. Alicia Moreau de Justo, Puerto Madero), where disc jockeys and radio personalities broadcast live from glassed booths within the restaurant. Entrees begin at about $8.

Posada de 1820 ( 501 Tucuman, in Centro) not only served me a good meal -- beef and pasta are specialties -- but also tracked me down somehow at my hotel to return the credit card I'd left on the table. Entrees begin at about $7. The Italian restaurant Campo dei Fiori (1411 Venezuela) is a bit off the beaten path in an old neighborhood called Montserrat, but a favorite of locals, with a wide selection of pastas and sauces, priced separately. A plate of pasta and sauce starts at about $6. Las Nazarenes (1132 Reconquista, in Retiro) is a high-quality, old-line beef restaurant with an exceptionally friendly staff. Entrees start at about $8. For a proper English tea, try the Claridge Hotel (535 Tucuman, in Centro, 011-54-11-4314-7700), for $7 per person.

If you make it to San Antonio de Areco, you'll find a number of charming but very inexpensive restaurants, including Almacen de Ramos Generales (143 Zapiola, http://www.ramosgeneralesareco.com.ar ), where entrees start at about $5.

WHERE TO STAY: You can't go too wrong if you choose a hotel in the lively, centrally located neighborhoods of Centro, Retiro, Palermo or Recoleta. I was happy at the Reconquista Plaza (602 Tucuman, 011-54-11-4311-4600, http://www.reconquistaplaza.com.ar ), although light sleepers may be bothered by street noise. Prices for a double begin at about $90 a night -- another measure of the value of a package.

For the ultimate in luxury, the newly opened Faena Hotel (445 Martha Salotti in Puerto Madero, 011-54-11-4010-9000, http://www.faenahotelanduniverse.com ) is stunning. Designer Philippe Starck teamed with Argentine clothing designer Alan Faena to turn an old warehouse into a boutique hotel. Double rooms start at $315 a night. Or better yet, sleep cheap and try a day pass to the Faena's luxurious Turkish bath.

INFORMATION: The governments of Buenos Aires and Argentina both have Web sites, at http://www.bue.gov.ar and http://www.turismo.gov.ar ; or call the Argentina Tourism Office at 212-603-0443. -- Cindy Loose


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Esperanza: I know this thread is about Argentina, but I can tell you that in every country of Latin America you will find a little spot where you feel more like in Europe than in America. And usually, like in Argentina, dressing fashionable, eating well and socializing is very important. Every time I visit Mexico I am surprised by the amount of money some people spend in clothes, food and drinks. Meaning looking good and having fun. It's part of the culture. I hope you really enjoy your trip.

Thank you esperanza for the info on that wonderful article from the Washington Post. I have read and printed it and plan to use it as a major reference source in planning my November trip to Buenos Aires.

well, tomorrow begins my adventure in Argentina. Thanks to everyone for your kind wishes, and arthurg, we will definitely get together in NY when I get back in the beginning of next year!

If I have any suggestions for you, I will certainly post them here!
next time I write I will be in Argentina!!

Have a great trip esperanza.I'll be thinking of you.

Hello from Jujuy, Argentina! I have been in Argentina since the last week of July, spending the first week in Buenos Aires and now we are settling into our new life in Jujuy.

Buenos Aires is FANTASTIC! It did remind me of Madrid because of the arquitecture and the cafes and the looks and sounds and smells...but, it is NOT Madrid! It has it´s own appeal. We really enjoyed getting to know some of the different neighborhoods and exploring the city! Arthur, you will enjoy it for sure.

Jujuy is an interesting place! It is about 4 hours from the Bolivian border and, although it is Argentina, it doesn´t remind me of Buenos AIres at all. We are settling into our routines, with school for my daughter and my classes at night.

What is great is that they celebrate¨the SIESTA here and that the cafe con leche is delicious! They also have churros and chocolate and tortilla de patatas...and many more wonderful dishes to try!

Well, gotta run, but I wanted to let you know I arrived safe and sound and that Argentina is a wonderful place to visit. I hope to do some traveling to other parts of this enormous country during my stay here...and if anyone wants to know anything...just ask!

Hi Esperanza!

Wow! Enjoy your time in Argentina. I am sure the experience will be wonderful for both you and your daughter.

Hopefully we can catch up personally the next time you are in Madrid or the next time I am in the States. After all, Philadelphia isn't that far from NY!

Besos!

I mentioned before that one of my sisters just visited Argentina, well, another sister (yes, I have a lot of sisters!!), is going to Argentina next month. It seems that present currency exchange rates allow more people to visit this wonderful place.

Esperanza, excuse my ignorance, but when you wrote: "Hello from Jujuy, Argentina!" I thought "Jujuy" was a cheerful way to express your happiness for arriving in Argentina, then I realized it was the name of the place you will be living at!!...is that a "native” name or something like that? Let us know more about Jujuy.

Thanks all for this. Reading travel opinions and stories like this has put the idea to visit Argentina next year.

Bill

Esperanza--Are you finding the Spanish spoken in Argentina, especially in Buenos Aires, really that much different from Spain? I have studied Spanish in Madrid and just wondered if I'll have much difficulty in BA. More than one Spaniard I know have told me that Argentinian Spanish is quite different in many ways.

I've lived in Mexico, Argentina and now Spain. You should have no trouble using Spanish learned in Spain to communicate in Argentina. There are vocabulary differences and pronuciation differences, but figuring these out is no worse than a New Yorker in the deep South of the US!

I agree with ChrisR. Well, I don't know how it works for someone that is not a native speaker, but I (from Mexico) have personally talked to people from Spain, Guatemala, Peru, El Salvador, Chile, Colombia, Uruguay, Costa Rica, and Argentina without a problem. Obviously you hear some words that you either apply different or have never heard before. Some times, not very often, I have a harder time understanding people from certain countries, like cuba or Puerto Rico. But probably they think the same about my accent .

I think in Argentina they have a lot of words that came from Italian. Also, some words commonly used in other Spanish-speaking countries have a really bad connotation in Argentina, like "coger", "cajeta", "concha", "cuchara", etc., etc. But besides that and getting used to the accent you should not have any problem.

hi there everyone...here´s some info on Jujuy for those who are interested:

SAN SALVADOR DE JUJUY:
The city is commonly known as Jujuy. The city was established by the Spaniards in 1592 as their northernmost settlement in Argentina. It is the highest provincial capital in the country (1260m above sea level). The word Jujuy has a native origin “XUXUY.” In one of the travel brochures it says that “Jujuy is a land of passers-by, foreigners in love and natives who plan to run away, but never…no one goes away; each of them stays due to security, and feeling of being a bit on the edge of the world, enjoying the advantages of living in the frontier, in the border, where everything is transient.” I think I would agree that you feel like you are almost at the edge of the world. It is so strange coming from the capital of the world, NYC, to this far-away land. The people who we have met here love living in Jujuy. They love the safety that the city provides and the beauty of the surrounding area.

Although we have only been in San Salvador de Jujuy for a few weeks now, we are really settled in. It seems like we have walked down every street at least a few times and we have done everything there is to do. It is a very small city, with a population of 230,999. Even though it is only 2 ½ hours away from Buenos Aires by plane, the lifestyle is light years away.

As for my impressions of Buenos Aires, here goes:

Buenos Aires reminds me so much of Madrid…the wide boulevards, the 19th century architecture, the cafes, the atmosphere! Yet, strangely there is something Italian in the air! The Italian food is amazing in Buenos Aires. The restaurants remind me of Italy! To me Buenos Aires is a mixture of Spanish and Italian cultures. I absolutely loved it!

Our first day in Buenos Aires we met my cousins! As soon as we arrived at the hotel, they called us to see if they come by to meet us. What a welcome! It was so exciting to meet cousins we had never met, but had known about all our lives. We went out with them to an amazing Italian restaurant: Campo dei Fiore. The homemade pasta and the provoleta (a grilled provolone cheese) were amazing. We also tried the infamous “dulce de leche” dessert, the most Argentine of all desserts. Dulce de leche is a milk jam that tastes like caramel. It seems to be on every menu and is the specialty of Argentina. It is delicious with ice cream or flan, but you can also eat a small bowl of it alone! My daughters absolutely love it!

Our next day we spent walking around the city center, crossing the Avenida 9 de Julio, supposedly the widest avenue in the world! It is nine lanes wide and impossible to cross in one shot. We walked by the Casa Rosada (the Pink House), the presidential palace, and the Plaza de Mayo, where the grandmothers of the disappeared still protest each Thursday afternoon.

The highlight for me was going to the Café Tortoni on the Avenida de Mayo. This Café has been in existence since 1858. When you walk into the Café Tortoni you can just feel the history. I can just imagine the famous Argentine author, Jorge Luis Borges sitting at one of the wooden tables reading El Clarin, the famous Buenos Aires newspaper. Knowing that my favorite Spanish playwright and poet, Federico García Lorca, had also sat at these tables in the Café Tortoni just took my breath away.

The next few days we explored many of the different neighborhoods in Buenos Aires. It was so much fun seeing the differences in the neighborhoods. Each neighborhood has its own appeal. We kept relating them to NYC neighborhoods: Recoleta is like the Upper East Side; Palermo reminded us of the Upper West Side; and Palermo Viejo seems like SoHo. We felt very much at home in Buenos Aires.

esperanza,

You sound estatic and madly in love with your new 6 month home. Am so glad!

You mentioned that both your daughters were with you and I'm wondering how they are adapting to school, etc. I know you mentioned in a post long ago their ages/grade level but I haven't bothered to find that post.

thanks -

School is very different here, as you can imagine! My younger daughter, who is 10 years old and in the 5th grade, will be with me during this semester here in Argentina. My older daughter, who is in High school, is going back to NY to begin sophomore year. We all decided it would be better for her not to miss being in her school for various reasons. I wish she could stay though, if only to solidify her Spanish!

But, happily my younger daughter has adjusted quite easily to the new school. In NY she has 17 students in her class, and here her class has 41 students!! She says the kids do not talk or answer questions much in class. The teacher talks and writes things on the board to be copied into notebooks. It is quite a change from what she is used to. She has made some nice friends and the teachers have been good to her, trying to make her feel at home.

When we walk into the school, all eyes are on us as the americanas, but it is not in a mean way...they are just curious!

All in all, the adjustment has been okay for her so far.

What I have noticed is the lack of new materials here and the poor conditions of the public schools. The buildings all need a freshening up with a good coat of paint! The schools seem to have little patios in the center, with Palm trees and orange trees. If the buildings were painted, it would look gorgeous...sort of like the patios of Sevilla (wishful thinking)... but, unfortunately, is seems like the government leaves this part of the country for last...that is what I have been told.

My classroom is absolutely sad! No chalk, erasers, nothing on the walls, very depressing atmosphere. It is amazing to think these students are motivated to study. My classes are all at night, from 6:30-11:30. My students are mostly all primary school English teachers or soon to be English teachers. Most of them work during the day at least 2 jobs--a morning shift and an afternoon shift, since most of the schools have two sessions. I am so blown away by their determination to learn English. It is very inspiring!

Any other questions, just let me know!

Esperanza, about the connection between Italy and Argentina, someplace I read, maybe on this board, that about 25% of Argentineans have at least one grandparent that is/was Italian. This makes Argentina the country with the largest Italian-descent population, obviously, outside Italy. Also, most Argentineans working legally in Spain do so with an Italian passport. Interesting, right? I suppose this is more noticeable in Buenos Aires.

Jujuy sounds more of a rural town, so I hope you enjoy every minute of this new lifestyle before you go back to the big apple. I think what you are doing is really awesome since learning English from a native Speaker is generally unaffordable for most people in Latin-America. Good job!

I also looked up some pictures of the region you are staying at and it looks like and old charming town. I hope “failed development” never gets to towns like Jujuy. In Mexico for example, a trip to the country side used to be really enjoyable, you could see from the highway little towns where most houses where made with adobe and painted all in white with red weaved shingles (I don’t know how to say “tejas”). Now most poor people use that horrible gray-color block and don’t paint or finish the walls. Little towns are now all gray and looking unfinished and without any charm. Old towns like the ones I describe above, have now political, corona, pepsi, and coca-cola advertisement on almost every wall. It is really bad. Just those towns on the United Nation’s world heritage list escape that terrible destiny.

This is what I am talking about. What could be gorgeous and picturesque town turns into this:

I leave for my first trip to Buenos Aires November 14 where I'll be through December 8. Am finding the prices to be considerably less expensive than Europe. Just reserved an air-conditioned one bedroom apartment in a modern building in the Palermo District (which I'm told is one of the nicer sections of BA)for a total monthly rate of $600 USD. Also plan to attend two weeks of Spanish language classes at the IBL School there. Twenty hours of classes per week (ie 4 hours a day--five times a week) will cost approxiamtely $100 USD per week. Both the school and the apartment rental agency, Adelsur, (which advertises on this website) were recommended to me by Martha Berman, an Argentinian Spanish language instructor at Instituto Cervantes in New York City. Finally hoping to spend one of my weekends in Argentina visiting the Iguazú Falls.

September 21, 2005
Happy Spring from Jujuy! Happy Fall to all of you in the Northern Hemisphere!

Yesterday was the beginning of the Fiesta Nacional del Estudiante! Today throughout the country all students are off!

Last night there was a MEGACONCIERTO across the street from where we are living. The concert started about 9pm and ended after midnight. Supposedly the performers were very well known Argentine singers. The music was very good but it was too loud. It was so loud that everything in our apartment was trembling. My daughter slept through it all, however. She is amazing! I was up reading (or trying to). From our window we could see the stage, if you looked through the trees. In the real winter there is probably a better view. But, at midnight there was a fireworks display that I was able to see perfectly. Although it was a simple display, it was pretty! And then the loudspeaker was announcing the beginning of Spring and of the Fiesta. They sang the official song of the Fiesta and another song that is popular, Color Esperanza!

Saber que se puede, querer que se pueda
Quitarse los miedos, sacarlos afuera,
Pintarse la cara Color Esperanza
Tratar el futuro con el corazón.

My daughter and I went away last weekend since we both had Monday off. (Yes, Monday and Wednesday! It is amazing how many holidays Jujeños celebrate. Even the jujeños I have met, are in awe of the amount of holidays there are.
) We went south to Salta, one of our new favorite cities here…and then took a day excursion to the Ruins of Quilmes and the wine region of Cafayate.

The Ruins of Quilmes are hillside ruins of a pre-Colombian fortress. It is considered Argentina’s most impressive archaeological site. Quilmes can date back to 1000 A.D. and it was taken under Inca rule in the late 15th c entury. The Quilmes Indians resisted the Spanish but they were finally defeated in 1667. The Spaniards imported the survivors (about 2000 of them) to the province of Buenos Aires where their legacy is known because of the beer factory there. Argentina’s most popular beer is called Quilmes.

We also went to a small winery to taste some of the wine of this region. The best wine of this area is called Torrontés. It is a white wine, that is similar to a German white. It was very good! The harvest is not until February, so the countryside was not as beautiful as it could be, but you could see the vineyards as we were driving around.

BTW: arthurg...you are going to love Argentina...it is a beautiful country and the people are so friendly and so hospitable. The price you got for the apartment sounds good! I am paying $400 a month here in Jujuy for a very large apartment.

Thanks, esperanza. So far the few Argentinians I've been exposed to via email have been great. The people I've been dealing with at the Adelsur Rental Agency and the IBL Language School in Buenos Aires have been very very helpful.

Since my daughter and I were both off from school on Thursday and Friday in celebration of the Student Festival. So, we took off to Cordoba, the second largest city in Argentina.



We traveled the way Argentineans travel—by bus. We took an overnight bus which left at 7:30pm on Thursday and arrived in Cordoba at 8am on Friday. We reserved seats for a "coche cama" which is a glorified first class, I guess. The seats were comfortable and wide. They extended back quite far and they did have a good section to put your legs up.

Our hotel, The Amerian Park, was amazing! We were on the 7th floor with a great view of one of the major intersections of the city, across the street from one of the best shopping malls, El Patio Olmos. This mall is housed in a gorgeous old building, so from the outside you would not know it was a fancy "American style" mall.

When we opened the curtains of the hotel room and saw the view,we were so happy. It was a perfect "city-scape". It reminded us of NY.



Cordoba is about half way from Jujuy to Buenos Aires. According to the guide books, it has the most impressive colonial remains of any Argentine city. These buildings are in the historic center of the city, and they are considered part of the UNESCO world heritage site. Much of the intellectual heritage of the city is owed to the Jesuit order. They settled in Cordoba in the 17th century. The buildings and churches are beautiful! There are a little over a million people living in Cordoba and it is a very busy city, but in the area we spent most of our time in, the historic area, it is very manageable and pleasant. One of the most important Argentine universities is in Cordoba. One of the things that makes Cordoba so lively, is the student population. I love seeing all the bookstores and cafes! Although it is not Buenos Aires, (or New York), it is a vibrant city.



My daughter and I went walking through the old section of town and then we took a double decker bus tour as an orientation to the city. Of course we were on the top level, so it was fun ducking our heads under the tree branches as we were visiting the city. We were able to see the University area, which reminded me of the Ciudad Universitaria in Madrid. It is a sprawling complex. We visited the major park of the city, and saw the mini amusement park it houses. We went down all the major avenues and we saw all the important churches and business buildings. All in all, it was a great way to see a lot in a little amount of time.



For lunch we had delicious steaks (what else do you eat when you are in Argentina??). After a relaxing siesta, we went out walking and then we went window shopping in the shopping mall. For dinner we found a Mexican restaurant…so we had to try it. It was not as good as the one we had found a few weeks ago in Salta. The sauce seemed like supermarket bought tomato sauce and mozzarella cheese. Oh well. We learned our lesson to stick with the basics...STEAK!



On Saturday, we took a half day tour to a town nearby, called Villa Carlos Paz. This town is in the Sierra Chica at the outlet of the Rio Suquia (or Rio Primero—they number their rivers in Cordoba). Because it is so close to Cordoba, it is a weekend destination for cordobeses. In the 1890's they built a dam to store drinking water for Cordoba, and at the same time developed the Lago San Roque where Villa Carlos Paz was built up. It is very much like upstate New York. It seemed like the Finger Lake area to me. There are hills, like the Catskills and there is a lot of tourism. There are amusement parks, bowling centers, lots of hotels and restaurants. It was strange to see the difference between Jujuy and Cordoba. It is obvious that Cordoba is a wealthy area. Jujuy's scenery is just as beautiful, perhaps even more beautiful, yet the government doesn't seem to develop or promote tourism there.



The tour we took stopped at various places on our way to Villa Carlos Paz. One of them was a factory of Alfajores. Alfajores are the typical cookie in Argentina, and of course, Cordoba has its own variation of the recipe. Alfajores are simple cookies that are filled with dulce de leche (of course!). Sometimes, they are then dipped in some sugary mixture or chocolate covering.



We also went up the mountain in Carlos Paz on the Aerosilla, or chair lift. From the top we were able to see a panoramic view of the surrounding area. Here is where I realized it looked like the Finger Lake area of NY.



When we got back to Cordoba it was lunch time, so we searched out a Chinese restaurant. Well, the Argentinean version of a Chinese restaurant, at least. It was an all you can eat buffet, what is called "Diente Libre" here. The food was okay; just okay. It was a bunch of steam tables with food that resembled Chinese food, but did not taste like it. There were no spicy or hot dishes, and the spices they used were not Asian. I guess the painting of the Great Wall of China made it a Chinese place. We will have to wait until December for Chinese food. Oh well.



After our disappointing lunch, we relaxed at our hotel, with our amazing view as a back drop! Then we went walking to the weekly artisan fair that is in another section of the city. We had a lot of fun strolling around the stalls of crafts and jewelry as well as antiques. It was an area a little like Greenwich Village and so we felt right at home. We did buy a few little things too, so it made it even more fun.



At night we ended up eating in the Irish Pub in our hotel. It did have an Irish Pub atmosphere, but the food was Argentinean. All in all we had a fun little mini vacation to Cordoba. I am glad to have been able to see it.



On Sunday we had to take the day time bus back to Jujuy. It was a 14 hour trip back. Happily, we got the front seats on the top level, so we were able to see the countryside as we were driving home. The scenery was pretty, some rolling hills, but mostly flat land. It was green though. There were flocks of goats and sheep and we even had to stop at one point for the flock of sheep to cross the road.

All in all, it was an interesting weekend away to another region of Argentina.
Til our next trip...

Esperanza,

Does Cordova seem like a place to spend 4/5 days?

I have read good reviews but the comparison is always with BA and BA always wins.

Small town atmosphere?
How about the climate?

Thanks,

JA

Yes, I think you would enjoy Córdoba if you like University towns. The surrounding area is nice for day trips too. I hear that the Villa Belgrano, which is a town south of Córdoba, is a German town that is spectacular. Their celebration of Oktoberfest is well-known throughout the country.

Esperanza,

Thank you for your reply about Cordoba. I think that I may try BA first (Nov. or Dec) and depending on how things go, then make the jump to Cordoba.

I've just returned from Seville and frankly the hassle with the airport and the long flights leave you a bit exhausted. Maybe age is a reality.
Thanks again,

JA

If you'd like to see some really nice pictures of Buenos Aires, check out the following website which my niece just alerted me to:
www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=231482
(I leave for BA November 14.)

I seriously thinking for next year to visit Argentina. I have bought a guide book and I am visiting some travel websites for more information. Also I lucky to know a fellow photographer from Argentina who is now living in New York City. He was the one that put the idea to visit Argentina in the first place and is giving me advice.

For some more research on Argentina, I have bought a DVD done by the Globe Trekker travel program on PBS station in the U.S. I think it is good DVD and having saw it, has only increased my interest to visit Argentina. So if you are looking for a good quality DVD, I can recommend this one.

Argentina GlobeTrekker DVD

Bill

I just might be going to Argentina for two weeks in March or April next year. Right now I am in the planning stages and will decide to go or not to go in January. My heart is set to go and I found out I can use my frequent flyer mileage to cover the cost of the flight from the US to BA making this a cheap trip.

My plans so far are is to spend one week in BA, three days for Iquazu Falls and three days in Salta. I picked Salta because most of the comments I have read on many travel website describe Salta as being a beautiful place. I wonder how beautiful it will be during the time I am there. I might add one day for Salta at the expense spending one day less in BA if I can do the Train to the Clouds.

Bill

hi everyone, I am writing to you from Ushuaia, the city at the end of the world...it is absolutely gorgeous! After leaving Jujuy, went to Puerto Madryn and the Valdes Penninsula. What an experience to go to a penguin colony and see thousands of penguins in their natural habitat. It was such a memorable experience. Here in Ushuaia, we went to the Tierra del Fuego national park, which is spectacular.

Tomorrow we leave for Calafate, where the Perito Moreno glacier is. I cannot wait.

Bill, you will LOVE Argentina. It is an amazing country, filled with beautiful landscape and friendly people.

While in Buenos Aires last month I met up with arthurg from MadridMan, and we were able to have a delicious dinner together. He loved Buenos Aires too!

Salta is a really great destination. From there you must go north to Jujuy and go to the Quebrada de Humahuaca, to the towns of Purmamarca and Tilcara. The region of Salta also has some beautiful landscapes to explore. You will love Salta as a city too. We have stayed at the Hotel Salta , right on the plaza 9 de julio. I would recommend it very highly, for location and for charm.

Keep posting about your plans! I know you will be happy to have experienced Argentina.

Will do and you keep posting too. I enjoy reading about your travels in Argentina.

Bill

well, we are finally back home in NY after 5 months in Argentina! The experience with the Fulbright exchange was amazing, the people we met were so warm, Argentina is a spectacular country...not only Buenos Aires, but the rest of the country is fenomenal. The landscape is so varied! We were able to see and explore the northwestern part extensively, and we fell in love with it; but our last 10 days were in Patagonia...a must-see for everyone! We were amazed at the amount of Spanish (and Italian) tourists throughout Patagonia. I loved hearing the Spaniards all around us, on any tour we took! I (sort of) felt like I was in Spain! Weird, huh?

Going to Ushuaia, the end of the continent, was so exciting! However, for me, the MOST thrilling was being at the Perito Moreno Glacier in El Calafate. WOW! It is amazingly gorgeous! What a sight. The other place that we loved was Punta Tomob, near the Valdes Penninsula, where we went to a penguin colony! What an experience to see thousands of penguins and be able to be walking around in their habitat.

All in all, I recommend Argentina to all! You will not be disappointed. Guaranteed. :hdspin:

esperanza

So you are back home in time for New Years.

I do not know to feel sorry or happy to read that you are back. Well I can feel happy for your daughter and your safe return. Sad that you returned and there will be no more stories about Argentina from you.

I will admit I am envious of you that you were able to visit Argentina and be away for such a long time. You are a very fortunate person to able to do it.

Happy New Year esperanza!

Bill

Just wanted to belatedly add my thoughts to those expressed previously by Esperanza. I spent three and a half weeks in Buenos Aires late November/early December and had a wonderful time which included a great Friday evening dinner in a lovely outdoor Palermo restaurant with Esperanza and her daughter. I rented my own apartment and attended Spanish language classes at the IBL School (which I highly recommend). The thing I really enjoy about Buenos Aires is the ability to lose oneself in the city and just live there as one of its citizens for whatever time you have. I rode the Subte (subway) every day between my apartment and the school and hardly ever bumped into other Americans as is so often the case in major European cities. It was fun using my less than perfect Spanish going to the supermarket, the laundry, etc and felt very much at ease with all the Argentinians I came in contact with. They are a very warm, friendly and welcoming people. I can't wait to go back. If you have been thinking about going to Argentina----do it! The US dollar and the Euro are very strong down there now, and you should have a wonderful time at a lot lower daily cost than any of the major cities of Wesren Europe.

Esperanza

I am considering a trip to South America next year. I want to fly into Santiago, Chile visit Torre de Paine National Park then travel to Argentina. Did you travel by bus in Argentina? I am considering taking the bus from Puerto Natales, Chile to El Calafate, Argentina then on to El Chalten. I am interested in your opinion. From El Chalten we will travel to Buenos Aires for a few days.

Thank You
gsobotta

hi there! Yes, I have traveled by bus in Argentina. We traveled from Cordoba to Jujuy (a 16 hour trip). Argentines take long bus rides often. The buses are clean, show movies, stop for meals, have unlimited water and juices, coffee, etc. They have "coche cama" seats that are quite comfortable.

Traveling by plane is expensive, and there is no national railroad system anymore, so the bus option is a very good one.
You will love Argentina! El Calafate is magnificent! I know I will return there. We stayed in a very nice hotel called Hotel Kosten Aike .
Let me know if I can help you as you are planning.

A spectacular event is happening in El Calafate these days: pieces of the Perito Moreno glacier are breaking off, and it is going to be a real EVENT. To read about it here in Spanish . The newspapers around the world will certainly be covering this.

When we were there in December we were able to see and hear a little cracking and breaking off of the glacier, but what is happening now is real news. I wish I could be there!!!

A question for those Argentina lovers that been to BA.

Did you take any trips Uruguay since Montevideo seems to be from what I read easy to get too?

Thanks
Bill

hi Bill! Yes, we went to Colonia, which is across el Rio de la Plata. You can take a ferry from Buenos Aires that goes directly to Colonia. It is a colonial (18th century)town, settled by the Portuguese. It is a lovely day trip from the hustle and bustle of BA. I would recommend it. We did not get to Montevideo, but I heard that it is also a good place to visit. If you go, please let me know your thoughts. When are you going to Buenos Aires? You will love it! :jump:

If you do go to Buenos Aires, I strongly recommend you consider hiring Roberto Aguirre as a guide during your stay. He is a retired attorney living in the Recoleta section and is totally fluent in both Spanish & English. He was recommended to me by friends and I in turn have recommended him to others. His knowledge of the city is immense. I can send you his email address if you like.

esperanza

Thanks for the info.

I was researching daytrips from BA and Uruguay consistently is mention. Even my BA guide book has a whole chapter on Uruguay. I read stories about people who visit Colonia, Montevideo and Punta del Este and they sound fun and interesting to photograph. I am planning to visit Colonia, even stay the night and may Montevideo too by taking a bus from Colonia.

As of now planning to go Argentina in October. What do you think October is a good month to visit? It will be Spring there.

Arthurg

Thank you for your information.

I saw your message before about Roberto Aguirre as a guide, if you like can you send me his email. It will be a while to before I make contact.

I still not know if I need guide or more importantly will I be the type of person that Roberto wants to guide.

But we will see since I planning one week for BA. :hdspin:

Bill

my wife and I just used our FF miles and will be in Argentina from Nov 9-24!! Very excited as this is our first time there. Heading to the lakes district for 4 days, then to Mendoza through Santiago, chile, 4-5 day, and pland to spend 5-6 nights in BA and the sourrounding areas. Trying to decide between Mar del Plata or Punte del Este, any recommendations? Know Plata will be a little cheaper, but somehow I find myself drawn to the glitz of Este...

From Washington Post Website, I think it is a good read. Enjoy.

Bill

Expatriate Games
Travelers Are Heading to Buenos Aires for the Culture -- and Staying for the $250 Rent

By Allen Salkin
Special to The Washington Post
Sunday, April 23, 2006; P01


Meghan Curry starts her day with a walk to the river. The former real estate agent from Denver, who is 26, holds hands with her fiance, Patricio de Vasconcellos, 31, a wavy-haired Argentine with dark eyes, as they gaze over the coffee-colored waters of the Rio de la Plata. Around midday, when de Vasconcellos heads to work at the wine shop where the two met a year ago, Curry settles into her two-bedroom apartment to work on her travel memoir and a collection of poetry. Then she might nap or head downtown for café con leche with friends at one of the city's thousands of outdoor cafes. Later, much later, it's time for a slow dinner on Buenos Aires time, where many restaurants don't open until 10 p.m.

"This," said Curry, "I could never do if I had to earn more than $6,000 a year."

Her apartment rents for $250 a month. An espresso costs about 65 cents. A restaurant dinner -- appetizers, thick steaks and wine -- costs about $25 for two. Stylish leather handbags from designer boutiques go for $20. Tickets for first-run American movies are about $3.50.

Sound good? It did to Curry, who came to the city known as B.A. in February 2005, intending to stay for a few months and learn Spanish. Once in Argentina, she fell in love with the low-stress lifestyle and with de Vasconcellos, and now plans to stay indefinitely.

Curry is one of thousands of Americans and others who have given up lives in places like Washington, Los Angeles and London in the last three years -- some permanently, some temporarily. Lured by B.A.'s high culture at low prices, this new crop of expatriates aims to pursue dream versions of themselves in the Argentine capital.

"Prague was the place in the early 1990s," said Margaret Malewski, author of the 2005 guide "GenXpat: The Young Professional's Guide to Making a Successful Life Abroad." "B.A. is the hot spot now."

American retirees who choose to settle outside the United States are still heading to established locales like Costa Rica and San Miguel de Allende in Mexico, and there's a solid crop of baby boomers retreating to former Eastern Bloc countries like Bulgaria and Slovakia. But right now, the under-50 set is flocking to B.A., said Roger Gallo, publisher of the expatriate Web site Escapeartist.com.

"It's a fairly sophisticated city in which people from New York, San Francisco and other large cities can find a culture with which they can identify," Gallo said. "It's got one of the great opera houses in the world, acceptable jazz, tango. It has some good restaurants and good wine."

The rush started after January 2002 with the collapse of the Argentine peso, which in 2001 was 1 to 1 with the U.S. dollar and is now roughly 3 to 1. The once-expensive city became one of the world's great bargains for visitors. Add to that B.A.'s other basic attractions: pleasant weather, an efficient mass transit system, relatively low crime and a daily English-language newspaper, the Buenos Aires Herald, that lists everything from AA meetings to tryouts for the choir of the Danish Church.

According to the U.S. Embassy in Buenos Aires, 23,000 U.S. citizens with addresses in Buenos Aires are currently registered with the embassy. But not all are finding what they came for. Some expats are thriving despite challenges, but others looking to leave their troubles back home have found new ones here.

New Bohemia

In Prague, the typical expat, circa 1991, might have been a 23-year-old chain smoker trying to write the next "The Sun Also Rises." But there is no typical B.A. expat in 2006. The scene is too diverse.

First, there are writers of all ages. Brie Austin, 49, of Raritan, N.J., arrived in 2002 to help ghostwrite a book. Within three days, he decided B.A. was his new home.

"The architecture struck me first," he said. "It was like Europe." Then, he said, it was easy to succumb to the rhythm of the city, the sounds, dinner at 10, the music, "the affectionate way of the people."

He moved here in April 2004. Now he spends his evenings socializing in Plaza Cortazar, the cafe-dotted epicenter of the international scene in the Palermo Viejo neighborhood, and his days maintaining a Web site and writing a novel.

Some expats are using the low cost of living to break into the cultural scene at a distance from their home countries, where life as an artist is less affordable. Hank Wechgelaar, 64, moved here in December after a career as a substance abuse counselor in London. Now he spends his days painting small canvases with rural Latin American scenes and exhibits them in a London gallery. "The blue sky, the brightness, the spontaneity of the people," said Wechgelaar. "It all translates into colors for me."

There are also business and entertainment world burnouts from stress centers all over the Northern Hemisphere. Terry Walshe, 37, was toiling in London as a music video director when a friend invited him along on a vacation to B.A. for two weeks. He loved the climate ("It's not tropical hot like Brazil. More like Los Angeles") and the affordability. "I went back to London for a week, rented my flat and came back here." Now he and another Brit plan to open a restaurant and nightclub in the historic San Telmo district.

Then there are all the tango-mad women, like Laura Chummers, 30, a professional dancer from San Diego who arrived in 2002 intending to study the dance for three months. She liked the place so much she came back a month later to stay. In 2003 she started a company, Tanguera Tours, that offers itineraries for American women who want to spend their vacations swirling around romantically lit milongas , or tango halls.

While some expats in B.A. are the traditional types working for multinational corporations, the artsy types usually arrive with money to live on. Others work freelance jobs for American companies as writers or salespeople. And some look for work once here, which can be a cumbersome process. Americans who want to work legally must first secure a job offer. Then the company must obtain a work permit. The potential employee must then visit a consulate office in the United States for a work visa.

Chummers, who said she paid $30,000 for a prewar, two-bedroom apartment with high ceilings and five balconies in the downtown district of Balvanera, doesn't know how long she will stay. She said she has noticed a big increase in the number of expats in the last two years. "It has doubled," she said.

Dinner at 11

Buenos Aires has one of the world's most thriving late-night scenes. An evening out usually starts around 11 with steaks, sausages and wine at a local parilla (grill). Then a group will hop in a taxi (which costs less than $4 to pretty much anywhere) and head to a spot like Opera Bay, a huge waterfront dance club where things get going around 2 or 3 a.m. At 5 or 6 o'clock, the group will be wide-eyed and ready for a snack of medialunas (sweet croissants) and coffee before heading home.

It can be thrilling for newcomers to get swept up in the social whirl, but it can also leave them wondering when the heck everyone actually sleeps.

One answer: Most apartments have roll-down, black-out shutters. On weekend mornings, when locals catch up on their sleep, the city is dead quiet. There is no traditional after-lunch siesta, but residents generally take naps in the early evening before going out. And they drink a lot of espresso.

Indeed, Porteños -- the term for Buenos Aires natives -- make some interesting lifestyle choices. The city has huge parks, but busy roads run through them, polluting the air. Many charming prewar buildings are being torn down because the locals prefer the new square towers. City streets are narrow, buses thunderous. Soccer matches are broadcast virtually 24 hours a day, and phalanxes of police in body armor sometimes close major roads to escort rowdy fans from stadiums.

Gallo, of Escapeartist.com, predicts that most Americans testing out B.A. will find the culture too "abbreviated" to stay forever. "It's a fun place to get away, but there's just not enough there."

Curry, for instance, has found it difficult to relate to girlfriends in a city that singlemindedly worships a tall, thin ideal of beauty. "It's hard to meet local women who share your interest in things that aren't fashion- or bulimia-related," she said.

There are other frustrations, like unorthodox business practices. Robert Shive, 60, who left a career as a money manager in Philadelphia in 2004, helps English-speaking foreigners buy real estate. They need help, he said, because real estate transactions in B.A. require the buyer to appear at the closing with the full purchase price in U.S. cash. It is not easy, he said, to get fifty or a hundred thousand dollars in $100 bills to a conference table in a foreign country.

Still, "apartment sales to foreigners are way up," he said. Most of his buyers are baby boomer retirees looking to spend the American winter here, and some are younger expats like Chummers, he said.

Expat Social Scene

On a recent Friday, the Young Expatriates Society of Buenos Aires held its monthly gathering at an art gallery in Palermo Viejo. The society, which was founded in 2004, has about 3,000 members, roughly 2,000 of them Americans. The Estudio Rich gallery was filled with young and youngish foreigners enjoying a smooth, deep-tasting Argentine tempranillo wine.

"My life here is completely different than in the U.S.," said former Washingtonian Antoinette Ford, who declined to reveal her age. "I take art classes, ride horses." She said she had left a 100-hour-a-week job as an architect to move here two years ago. Now she rents out her house in Washington and works as a freelance writer. But while she hopes to stay here permanently and support herself with her writing, she has had to face the reality that even B.A.'s low prices can be too steep for a budding freelancer: She recently interviewed for a job at an architecture firm to fill out her income.

Also at the gallery was Grant Dull, 29, a San Antonio native who had become entranced by Argentine author Jorge Luis Borges in college and moved to B.A. for a few months after graduation. Later, after a few years outside Argentina, he came back and, with a friend, launched Whats Up Buenos Aires ( http://www.whatsupba.com/ ) in 2004. The Web site, with 15,000 to 20,000 visitors a month, lists nightly events and has a rotating cast of a dozen expat contributors writing about life and culture in B.A. Dull also works with two local bands, showing videos during performances.

In the United States, his last job was in a turn-out-the-vote campaign. In B.A., he said, life is more fulfilling. "I've been able to become active in the cultural scene on an artistic level."

Some Argentines resent the influx of the sort of foreigners who care only about the inexpensiveness of the country and not its culture.

"They are living here because it's cheap," said Andrea Roiter, an accountant who was at the gallery event trying to recruit foreigners to join a weekly English-language conversation group with Argentines. "They are not making business investments that can help the economy grow." The devaluation of the peso caused many middle-class Argentines to struggle, with imports such as computers and cars becoming three times more expensive.

But recent signs show the economy picking up speed. In 2005, it grew at 9.1 percent, the government reported, beating projections to reach the highest rate of growth in 13 years. Most economists believe that the government will continue to intervene to keep the exchange rate at 3 to 1 with the dollar. However, recent rises in the prices of beef and other commodities mean that inflation could be taking hold. An unwavering exchange rate combined with a peso that buys less would make the country less of a bargain for expats.

But for now, the expats are rolling in. ByT Argentina, a real estate agency specializing in renting B.A. apartments to foreigners over the Internet, offered 200 apartments in 2001, according to co-owner Mariana Travacio. This month the company, which now has dozens of competitors, lists 900 apartments, and almost all of them are occupied -- many for months, Travacio said.

Latin Love

"I had two visitors in my first three years here. Now I have two a week," said Marina Palmer, 36, the unofficial godmother of the B.A. expat scene, thanks to her 2005 memoir, "Kiss & Tango: Looking for Love in Buenos Aires." The book chronicles how Palmer, a former advertising executive at Young & Rubicam, left her soul-sapping career in New York in 1999 to pursue a career as a tango dancer -- and engage in steamy romances.

Love is in the air here. Nowhere in the world do people make out in public more. Kissing couples are everywhere.

Kimberly Daniels, 37, a freelance director of television commercials who moved recently from Venice Beach, Calif., said that when she told friends she was relocating to Buenos Aires, they joked that she would end up with "an Argentine polo player."

At a rooftop barbecue at an expat's home in Palermo Viejo, the slender blonde said she was having some luck on the singles scene. "It's nice to be a foreigner as a female," she said. "Suddenly you're exotic."

But she said there have been some logistical nightmares -- getting a landlord to fix her air conditioning, and dealing with a cell phone company. No matter how wonderful life is in B.A., there are drawbacks.

Common complaints are noisy traffic, a lack of screens on windows despite plenty of mosquitoes, a lack of respect for business deadlines and a dearth of good breakfast joints. (Argentines prefer sweet pastries and espresso to bacon, eggs and toast.) It's enough to make some expats yearn for home. Curry became so homesick for her parents and for "a good bloody mary and a nice omelet" that she went back to Colorado in September to figure out a way to bring her fiance to the States. After three months, she found that she had slipped into her old work patterns of long hours and no writing time.

Curry decided B.A. was for her and went back, planning to stay at least another year and a half. She figured she could earn the $6,000 a year she needs to live here by collecting referral fees for sending former clients to other real estate agents in Colorado.

Having learned fluent Spanish by avoiding English speakers during her first eight-month stint, she's living differently this time, courting expat friends and bringing a little bit of the United States to South America.

"Now I cook a lot of things I didn't eat much in the U.S.," Curry said, standing in her apartment in B.A.'s outlying Nuñez neighborhood. "Like meat loaf and mashed potatoes and apple pie."

Allen Salkin is the author of "Festivus: The Holiday for the Rest of Us" (Warner Books).

Here's a link to some wonderful pictures of Buenos Aires

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=352878

arthurg, thanks for posting that link! I loved re-visiting Buenos Aires thru these photos. The faces of the abuelas de la plaza de Mayo are haunting! However, the street scenes made me so happy. I miss Argentina! BTW: If anyone is searching out good Argentinean empanadas in NYC, try GAUCHAS on 1st Avenue between 91-92 Street. Really authentic empanadas. We found the place recently as we were feeling "homesick" for anything Argentinean.

Thanks arthurg for sharing the photos, I really enjoyed them.

Bill

esperanza

I was in the neighborhood today, I gave Gauchas a try after I found it. It is between 90-91 Street

The empanadas were excellent and will give this place a try for a Argentina meal next time!

Gauchas Website

Bill

sorry I misjudged on the address for Gauchas, Bill! I am glad you found it and I am especially glad you tried the empanadas. They are really good! I heard about the place when it was mentioned on a show on the Food Network. While we were there my daughter was also able to get some Argentine candies that she loved when we were living in Argentina, so that was an unexpected surprise too! It is good to have a place to satisfy the craving for empanadas!

I just saw a wonderful new movie from Argentina, "El Perro" directed by Carlos Sorin and filmed totally in Patagonia. It's in limited release playing in only one New York City theatre for example. I recommend yu see it if you can.

I was kind of depressed today, so to help myself to lift my spirits today, I did it!

Booked my flight, round trip from JFK to BA, Oct 26 - Nov 9. Two weeks in Argentina, gives me plenty of time to visit Salta and BA.

The best part I finally used some of my BA frequent flyer miles to pay for the trip. So the flight costing me $52 and I have enough miles to do this again next year.

Bill

Just visited a wonderful new Argentine restaurant in New York, Buenos Aires. Located in the East Village, the servings are huge and the prices are extremely reasonable. Also enjoyed the best Argentine empenadas I've ever tasted in this city. But you have to get there early. The place is small and they do not take reservations. By 9PM last Tuesday, every table was occupied. I recommend this restaurant to one and all.

Copied from the New York Time Travel Section and a place I plan to visit this coming Fall. It will be Spring in Argentina when I go.

I am surprised the amount of travel articles the New York Times has published recently on Argentina. Makes you think they are bias to Argentina compared to other well know countries that people travel to.

Enjoy!

Bill


July 2, 2006
Next Stop
Salta, Argentina: Wind-Carved Land of Strong Wine and Difficult Love
By DANIEL ALTMAN

MENTION Salta to an Argentine, and the response is often the following: "Ah, Salta the Beautiful." That this northern province isn't better known to the rest of the world is an injustice. The road south from the province's eponymous capital to Cafayate, home to a cluster of vineyards, boasts breathtaking scenery, with cliffs of many hues shaped by water and wind. With the addition of tasty food, a rich musical tradition and powerful wines, the place should not be missed.

The city of Salta used to be known only for its colonial charms, like the late-19th-century cathedral whose pink and custard- facade looks down on the orange trees that line Ninth of July Plaza. But modern Salta has carved out a place as the leading city of Argentina's northwest, displacing nearby San Miguel de Tucumán.

Sitting under an umbrella on Balcarce, a street brimming with snazzy cafes and night spots, a local agronomic engineer, Lucas Norris, talked one midmorning in May about how the city and the province have grown. "The whole area around Balcarce is new, just about five years old," he said while sipping strong coffee and fresh orange juice. "Before, it was half-abandoned, without places like this."

Mr. Norris gave much of the credit to Juan Carlos Romero, the province's governor since 1995. Mr. Romero's government paved the road to Cafayate and much of the route to Cachi — where, Mr. Norris said, the views from high in the mountains are even more stunning. Governor Romero has been negotiating with airlines for flights into the city and has helped to get hotels built.

Marcelo Córdova, whose family owns the Vasija Secreta winery in Cafayate, said that Salta used to be a backwater, and less secure for tourists. "When I went to Córdoba to study, I was thinking, 'How boring Salta is,' " he said, his mirrored sunglasses reflecting almost as much light as his new Mini parked a few feet away. "Now, it has everything."

The new Salta is on show at innovative restaurants like José Balcarce, where you can try Lalo Angelina's modern takes on northern staples, including supple llama carpaccio and beef tenderloin in a creamy sauce enriched with quinoa. Salta's new restaurants and bars would give any big city's night life a run for its money, but the city's more traditional spots offer an entirely different — and more distinctive — experience.

To start with, you can eat home-style favorites like oven-baked empanadas, tamales, humita (corn paste with cheese wrapped in corn leaves), locro (a stew of meat and corn kernels with chopped scallions) and mondongo (a rich tripe soup flavored with red pepper) at La Criollita. It's a modest place, but the food attracts men in business suits by the half-dozen along with older couples and working-class families.

The logical next stop is a peña folclórica, or folk tavern. The locals all have their favorites, but everyone agrees that El Boliche Balderrama is unbeatable for pure history. For 53 years, the Balderrama family has presided over a seemingly endless procession of acts in a triangular hall decorated with animal skins as well as photos and caricatures of the great names of zamba, the heartfelt local music inspired by country life. A recent night began with young men dressed as gauchos and women in frilly dresses and knickers, all dancing the zamba. Later, a succession of singing groups took the stage, ranging from a modern sextet to a troupe playing Andean music with indigenous instruments.

The songs were of nostalgia and difficult love, the two great common denominators of Argentine music. The audience was mostly Argentine, too, and mostly from other provinces. But they knew the tunes; they clapped and cheered, and the women waved their napkins like handkerchiefs. The show went on all night.

At the back, behind the bar, sat Juan Balderrama, a round man in his 70's whom everyone calls Don Juan, with not a little deference. The clientele changes with the season, Mr. Balderrama said. There aren't many tourists from the United States, but there are plenty from South America and Europe.

To Don Juan, the spread of Salta's music through tourism has been gratifying. "I'm very happy," he said. "This is our music — Argentine, Salteña." He also gave credit to the authorities. "The government has been doing a lot to increase tourism — cleaning up and putting things in order," he said. "It's not just here in the capital, but also in the interior."

And what about that interior? An afternoon drive down to Cafayate, about 110 miles down Route 68 from Salta, is an unforgettable experience. The first 30 miles or so take you along a tree-lined two-lane road, passing through tranquil villages with buildings of deep red earth. Then the trees drop away, and the mountains are visible in the distance. About 30 miles later, you enter the land of dreams.

In the Quebrada de Cafayate (Cafayate Ravine), the cliffs and crags come in every color: brick red, pale orange, yellow, white, green, slate blue and rich purple. They appear in stripes and splotches from a few feet across to the size of an entire hillside, like the palette of some celestial painter.

A couple of formations have names, too. The Devil's Throat is an enormous atrium of red and lavender rock whose floor slopes upward at a sharp angle. The echoes inside are stunning, clearly repeating four or five times. At the Amphitheater, another open-topped cavern just a few seconds' drive away, you can meet Octavio Pérez, a clean-shaven man of middle age who has been playing his guitar and singing there for eight years.

He took a break to explain the small piles of stones, some of them stacked at precarious angles, along the floor of the Amphitheater. "People put them here to show the custom of those who were born here," he said. Each is a little altar to Pachamama (Mother Earth) of the sort that a farmer might place at the beginning of his land.

THE road continues along the valley, past dunes of fine sand glittering with mica, and ends at the junction with Route 40. There sit three wineries: Bodega El Esteco, Vasija Secreta and San Pedro de Yacochuya; Yacochuya means clear water in Quechua, a dialect of the Incas who first colonized the area over 500 years ago. El Esteco also happens to have a luxury hotel attached to it, the Patios de Cafayate of Starwood's Luxury Collection. At the spa, you can bathe in cabernet or torrontés, the aromatic local white wine.

The wines from Cafayate are strong and flavorful because of the area's microclimate, which can expose the grapes to a temperature difference of over 35 degrees in one day, said Fabián Mirando, an oenologist at El Esteco. Marco Etchart, whose family owns San Pedro de Yacochuya, added that Cafayate wines have an intense color, too: "The wines of Mendoza may be more refined, but here they have luminosity and power." He's not kidding — a glass of the winery's signature bottling, with 16 percent alcohol, has more kick than a shot of tequila.

Wine has also been a big part of Salta's growth. Gustavo Vasvari, an agronomist at Vasija Secreta, said that "a worldwide change in consumption" had increased investment all across the valley. You can see the evidence in every winery: Vasija Secreta has new machines on its bottling line, as does El Esteco, where a new barrel room is waiting to be filled. The winery at San Pedro de Yacochuya, where green parrots flit around in the afternoon sun, dates from only 1999.

The mountains whose water nourishes Cafayate's grapes have given birth to music, too. José Pintos plays a suitcase full of Andean instruments in the evenings at Las Tinajas, a restaurant close to Cafayate's main plaza. "My parents were shepherds" who believed that playing to the animals improved the quality of their meat, he said. "Our grandfather played the instruments to us so we would pick up a feeling for the music," he added. "The music was born from the feelings in the heart the come from contact with nature."

There are still a few herds of goats and sheep in the valley, but wine and tourism are rapidly taking over. With those industries come people like Mr. Mirando, who moved from Mendoza, Argentina's biggest wine region, four years ago. "Socially, it's a very difficult place at the beginning," he said, citing the conservative bent of the town's older families. "But the people have become accustomed to seeing new faces. Every time, it gets easier."

VISITOR INFORMATION

GETTING THERE
Aerolíneas Argentinas and other local carriers offer several flights daily from Buenos Aires. Economy fares cost around $200 round trip. The country code for Argentina is 54; the city code for Salta is 387, and for Cafayate 3868.

WHERE TO STAY
Hotel Papyrus (Pasaje Luis Linares 237 in Salta; 422-7067; www.hotelpapyrus.com.ar), a nine-room gem of a boutique hotel, sits perched on the hills overlooking the city. Prices start at 240 pesos in low season (about $80, at 3.14 Argentine pesos to the dollar) and 265 pesos (or $88) in high season (July through November and Easter Week), for standard rooms with modern décor.

Patios de Cafayate Hotel and Spa (junction of Routes 40 and 68 in Cafayate; 421-747; www.starwood.com) comprises a gracious hacienda and a free-standing spa. Its 27 rooms and three suites start at $229.

WHERE TO EAT
José Balcarce (corner of Mitre and Necochea in Salta; 421-1628) serves northern haute cuisine. A three-course dinner for two with a nice bottle of local wine costs about 160 pesos.

La Criollita (Zuviria 306, Salta; 431-7342) offers traditional delicacies, with a selection of beers or rather overpriced wines. Two people can try almost everything on the menu, with beer, for a total of 40 pesos.

Las Tinajas (Mitre 25, Cafayate) serves a wide selection of meat and seafood dishes in a casual setting. Dinner for two with fine local wine and José Pintos's music comes to around 70 pesos.

MUSIC
El Boliche Balderrama (San Martín 1126, Salta; 421-1542; www.boliche-balderrama.com.ar) provides refreshment, dancing and all the music you can take. Arrive on the late side and pay about 30 pesos a person for drinks and dessert. Octavio Pérez can be found in the Amphitheater, a little less than 90 miles from Salta along Route 68 to Cafayate (Octavio-anfiteatro@yahoo.com.ar). José Pintos's group plays at Las Tinajas and can be contacted at Yerba-altiplano@hotmail.com.

WINERIES
San Pedro de Yacochuya (421-233; www.sanpedrodeyacochuya.com.ar) is on rural Route 2, a dirt road that branches west off Route 40. Bodega El Esteco (422-184; www.micheltorino.com.ar) is on Route 40 just south of the junction with Route 68. Vasija Secreta (421-850; www.vasijasecreta.com) is practically across Route 40 from El Esteco.

bill, Thanks for posting the article on Salta. Although it made me a bit nostalgic for Argentina, it was wonderful to read. Salta, la linda is a wonderful colonial city and the area surrounding the city is gorgeous! Breathtaking scenery!!
Thanks for sharing this! I agree with you that the Times has had a lot of articles on Argentina lately. It is funny, since when you get there you see that there are parts of Argentina which are still not very set up for the tourist trade. Salta is getting there though. There are lots of tourists, even Argentine tourists there. I was especially surprised by the amount of Spanish and Italian tourists throughout Argentina, but especially in Patagonia.

Over a year ago the first messaged I posted on this Argentina thread was:

Today is Oct 25 and tomorrow I fly to Buenos Aires for two weeks vacation there.

Planning to eat, drink, tango, horseback riding and see polo match. And photograph most of it.

I have a list of people I am going to meet for the very first time in person while I am in Buenos Aires. People I have corresponded over the internet who gave me valuable advice about my trip. So now I can thank them in person over a good meal.

I am excited and just want to share the good news with the MadridMan gang!

Bill

Buen Viaje, Bill! I know you will love Buenos Aires. If you are there on the weekend, go to the San Telmo street (antique) market. It is great! Have some good steak dinners and drink a lot of delicious Malbec. I am very jealous!

Esperanza

Came back last Friday and I am burn out. Buenos Aires is a fantastic city to visit.

I went horseback riding for the first time and found out I loved it. Did have steaks at a few places and because the exceptional quality of the Argentina meat, it will be a while before I have any steaks in the USA. It just not the same, American steaks are boring. I managed to pick up a very high quality heavy leather jacket for $225 on Murilllo Street. I think I would have to pay twice that in the states. Paid in cash and negotiated the price down. A taxis cost me on average four dollar the Subway was like 22 cents, but I still love walking around Buenos Aires.

The B&B I was staying at for the my thirteen nights, the owner I bought her flowers as my way of saying thank you for my long stay there. It was amazing what 35 pesos can buy in flowers. A half-dozen of red roses, half-dozen of white roses, a bouquet of daisies, a bouquet of red carnations and a bouquet of yellow. She loved them and I love staying at her B&B. This was the first time I would get up very early in the morning to shoot photographs, the jump in a taxi and go back to the B&B just to have breakfast and share things at the breakfast table with the owner or other people who were staying at the B&B. Meet people from New York City, Utah and even Madrid.

One of the friends I made in Buenos Aires was an Argentina woman who is studying dance. She convinced me to go to a milonga. So for my last night in BA we went to three different types of milongas. It was great that she came along explaining the Tango to me and to see the differences.

The first milonga was modern tango, were plenty of young people dancing and my friend pick out the dancers who were professional tango dancers who just come here to dance. I learned if you want to meet women, learn tango as I watch plenty of attractive women sitting around waiting to be asking to dance. Then we went to another one were it young people were learning to tango. She was informed in was macho to learn to tango. The last one was mind opening experience where it was a very mature crowd, there was people dancing in their 60 and 70 and their love of tango was etched into their faces. I loved watching tango. Probably will not learn it because my free time is spent on photography.

I have to say Freddo is an evil place to visit. Easy to get hook on that ice cream and I found myself skipping dessert at the restaurant and having it a Freddo. Also it was the last thing I had in Buenos Aires before I took a taxi to the airport to fly home.

This was one of the cheapest trips I ever went on and the quality of the food I was eating and wines were fantastic. Most of all made new friends there and I really think I will go back again next year. No I am going back next year and need an excuse not to go. Esperanza, do you have one?

I will send you an email when my photos are done from this trip.

Bill

Welcome back to NY! I have been thinking about your trip to Buenos Aires and I have been checking the message board often. I am so happy you had a good trip! It sounds like you will find a way to get back there too. Buenos Aires is an amazing city.

I would love to see your photos!! Hispanic Magazine this month has a short article on Buenos Aires that I read this week, and I was thinking of you.

We are seriously thinking of going back to Argentina this summer. We miss it so much and cannot wait to return.

okay, if you are hungry do not read this : eating steak in Argentina ...

I will have to heard down to Argentina one day. When I did study abroad, it was out of my budget. Sounds like a wonderful place to visit.

My brother works at the US Embassy in Buenos Aires, we really have to visit Argentina.

Vegas baby, you should contain him. President Bush's daughters were recently visiting Buenos Aires on one of them got her purse stolen. I think she forget were she put it.

I bet he might have some interesting stories about it.

Bill

Well, I guess it is time to revive the Argentina thread! We are going back this summer. Hooray! I cannot wait to go back to our favorite places in Bs.As. and to find some new places too. Bill, your photos of Bs. As. are amazing. I love them, and as I mentioned to you in the private message I will be using them this week as I do a presentation to some classes in my school about my Fulbright exchange in Jujuy.

Bill from NYC funny you should mention BUSH, my bro had to fly all the way to Hanoi Vietnam to meet up with him.

my parents are in Argentina right now...

esperanza
Thank you for your kind words concerning my photographs. I planning to return to BA this coming November. Hopefully I will get to see/photograph a polo game this time.

I let you know when my travel stories are posted.

Vegas Baby
Buenos Aires is calling you!

Bill

I recently heard on the radio that there's a growing trend among NY artists....moving to Buenos Aires!!! Basically, the live there, but sell their art in the U.S.

It most probably is because the cost of living is much cheaper and the dollar is very strong there. There are 3 Argentine pesos to 1 US dollar! And, BTW the Euro is also quite strong in Argentina. There are 4 pesos to 1 Euro. That is one of the reasons I recommend MadridMan to come to Argentina this summer! Another good reason could also be that it is a gorgeous city and it has a great cultural life.

esperanza, I'm going to push for Argentina this summer instead of Costa Rica as mentioned in another thread. Let's see if I can make any headway on that front. I'm not thrilled about the idea (yet) about spending my vacation in the rainforest under mosquito netting and without air conditioning. I know. I know. Argentina sounds much nicer for a cooler (?) summertime climate - it's Argentina's WINTER, afterall!

Saludos, MadridMan

I am a happy camper today, booked my flight for my second trip to Buenos Aires in late October of this year.

Bill

hey Bill, I am so happy for you! Where are you going to go in Argentina? You should try to get out of BsAs this time, so you can get to know the country a bit more. The provinces are very different. If you need some suggestions, just let me know.

I am leaving for Argentina at the end of June and I will be there for 2 months! I am thrilled to be returning. :hdspin:

esperanza

I am happy for your two months trip too!

Also there is some Argentina events taking place in our home town happening at the El Museo del Barrio .

There is one on Los Desparecidos and on June 14 is Tango at the museo too!

Bill

Some Reviews from my vacation in Buenos Aires during late October '06 . Just in case someone else is going, hope it helps.

Bill

The B&B I stay at in Buenos Aires was Posada Palermo .

I stayed at this lovely B&B for thirteen nights in late October – November 2006. I originally booked the single room for my stay at Posada Palermo but the owner permitted me to stay in two other rooms which happen to be double rooms. There are only four rooms at this B&B. So I can say I have slept in three of the four rooms of this B&B. I doubt very much you will find anyone that can say that.

I found the rooms and bathrooms were spotless. The beds were firm; plenty of pillows and falling asleep was not a problem for me. All the rooms had a TV, a radio, a phone to dial outside numbers and WIFI access for my laptop. One of the rooms I stayed in had a large window facing the street and at night the room was quiet. This is because the area where the B&B is located is quite at night. Each room is decorated in its own style, from the furniture to even the walls, which are full of paintings and posters. The day I arrived at Posada Palermo, my first impressions when I first entered was that I was in someone’s home. This is true, because the owner lives upstairs; this B&B is her home.

There is morning breakfast and then there is breakfast served the Posada Palermo way.

Everyone sits at one large table and usually being the first one up in the morning; I found the breakfast table richly decorated with fresh rolls, jams, cereals, fruits and homemade yogurt. But there is more. I was served a thin toast with cheese and ham which I love to have because it was very tasty and light to eat. Then there were the sweet fresh pastries. Since I was there for almost two weeks I can say the pastries were not the same ones each day. There is tea, orange juice, matte and plenty of hot coffee. The word “light breakfast” is not found at this B&B, because when breakfast is this enjoyable it is hard to stop. I just could not have one bite of something and I notice this in the other guests too!

I never had the chance to visit a café in Buenos Aires for morning coffee. There was no reason, I had Posada Palermo. One early morning I visited La Boca to shoot photos before the tourist arrived. I finished around 9:30 found a Radio Taxi to take me back to Posada Palermo for my breakfast.

Each morning I was made to feel at home from Viviana the owner of Posada Palermo and Alejandro who helps her run it. It was a pleasure each morning to sit at breakfast table with Viviana and Alejandro to talk about what I did in Buenos Aires the day before or talk with the other guests at the B&B what they did or what their plans for the day were. Some morning discussions were about our lives back home. I meet people from Utah, Madrid and even my home town New York City. Some mornings it was Alejandro and me talking about our lives and sharing some matte. Viviana and Alejandro was extremely helpful giving me advice each morning doing things in Buenos Aires.

The neighbor where Posada Palermo is located is a residential area of Palermo, were you will see plenty of Portenos everyday. There are an abundance of local stores, cafes and restaurants to visit and 10 to 15 minutes walk to the nearest train station, Bulnes on the D subway line. Also at the Bulnes station is the shopping mall Alto Palermo. Hip looking stores are found inside and it where I bought some inexpensive jewelry to give as gifts back home. On the top floor there is a Freddo where I had its famous ice cream.

One street in particular near the B&B is Charcas I really enjoyed walking and it was two blocks. On one side of Charcas street almost every block is lined with small outdoor cafes, restaurants and even an ice cream shop. There was outdoor seating at almost all the places that served food. It seemed to me walking through this street it was very popular with the Portenos.

I would stay here again, because I found it Viviana and Alejandro to be warm and friendly and a morning breakfast I did not want to miss.

This place I had dinner is very special and for me a most do for anyone visiting Buenos Aires, dinner at Casa Saltshaker .

Casa Saltshaker is not a restaurant or is located where the public can go to eat anytime they wish. It is unique place to have a unique dinner in Buenos Aires. I had dinner here because I was interested in that unique dinner experience and I certainly found it.

Casa Saltshaker is located in an apartment. There is a website for Casa SaltShaker, where you can find the menus and the nights, usually Friday and Saturday for dinners.

The starter I was served Salmon and Daikon Sashimi with Rosehip Liqueur. The second course was Barley and Roast Beef Risotto.

Then main course was Pork Loin in a sauce of Gin and Olives served with Capers Camembert Salad with a caramel liqueur and mustard vinaigrette.

Dessert was warm chocolate noodles with red fruits marinated in Orange and Honey Liqueurs. Just reading what I had for dessert again makes me hungry and it was delicious dessert to have.

Also, during dinner, I was served two wines- a red and white that were excellent. After dinner, I was served an orange liqueur, Tapaus, that was that exceptional. As I was slowly drinking this liqueur, I decided I was going to buy some and brought two bottles of Tapaus back home with me.

I should mention besides the excellent dinner there is another aspect that adds to the unique experience at Casa Saltshaker. I sat down to dinner with five other dinner guests who were strangers to me. We had lively discussions about Buenos Aires and our lives back home.

For me, when I have excellent food cooked with care by the chief Dan Perlman, drinking wine for the first time and finding them wonderful and sitting down to dinner with interesting people to talk to, dinner is always going to be memorable experience and it certainly was at Casa Saltshaker.

Recently Casa Saltshaker was reviewed in New York Times and the reviewer mentioned something about that Casa Saltshaker is for insiders when in Buenos Aires. I did not even know I was one before the New York Times pointed it out.

Is it a one of a kind dinner experience for anyone who is in Buenos Aires.

I loved reading your thoughts, Bill. Funny thing is that we also stayed the the Posada Palermo B& B in Bs As. We stayed as a family of 4 there taking two of their rooms. I agree totally with you, Bill; the owner and manager as well as the housekeeping staff are all lovely. Also the area is great. I would recommend it highly.

I have also stayed at the Golden Tulip Savoy Hotel which is also good if you prefer a hotel (ie. Anonymity)as we did during one weekend in BsAs.

I am happy to read about your experience at the Salt Shaker restaurant!! I have been reading his blog for the last few months and I find it intriguing. I was even thinking of seeing if we could have a private party there in August with my cousins. I would love to invite them to dinner, and this seems like a fun option.

I will try your two restaurant suggestions while we are there this time too. We are leaving next week...I cannot wait to have the steak and Malbec! :jump:

I seem to be following Bill and esperanza: I came back from New York in June and will be going to Argentina for 3 months starting late September! I'll be living in Córdoba, anyone been there?

Cordoba is a very nice place to be for a few months! You will really enjoy it. As you probably know it is a University city, so there is a lot of atmosphere. There is a good mall (commercial center) and a beautiful park. I went for a long weekend to Cordoba 2 years ago and one of the first things we did was to take a city bus tour which you can get right by the cathedral. It was a great way to get oriented. On the weekends there is a great street fair that is a lot of fun. The surrounding area of Cordoba will be great for weekend trips into the mountains (las sierras) and the town of General Belgrano is famous for its´ German fest in the October, so you will definitely have to go there. The town of Carlos Paz is also really nice. It is very quaint and there is a teleferico that goes up the mountain to get a spectacular view.

All in all, I think you will have a fabulous time in Cordoba. Argentina is a special place, so I know you will have fun!

To keep this two year old Argentina thread going and it has to be second most popular country on this message board, I posting this message.

Tommorow I fly out of New York City to visit Buenos Aires for two weeks again.

Until the exchange rate dollar/eur improves it going to be a while until I visit Spain/Portugal.

I do miss visitng these two countries.

Bill

Bill, I AM SO JEALOUS! I wish I were going too! Are you just going to BsAs or are you going to travel around at all? I hope you are able to get out to the provinces...it is a different world and one worth exploring. (especially with a camera!!)

I will be thinking of you: drinking good Malbec, eating scrumptious steaks and empanadas and enjoying dulce de leche and medialunas. If you are staying at Posada Palermo again, enjoy.

Buen viaje. I cannot wait to hear all about it. If you are into good cafes, try Las Violetas . I know you will like it!.

Esperanza

Long time no hear from you.

I will be ariving in BA Friday morning and starting my trip with something special.

For lunch that Friday I am going La Cabrera for steak and Malbec. I fiqure since I going to have bad or ok airline food why not to the other extreme. Have a wonderful Argentina steak and wine at one the best places in Buenos Aires to have it.

Also Sunday is election day in Argentina so hopefully I will be photographing election day.

I going horse back riding again same estancia and dinner at Casa Saltshaker. They remember me and that was only one visit.

I could not get a room at Posada Palermo so I will be staying some where else and will post a review here.

Since I made friends in BA on my last visit, I have a few dinners for the night with a few Portenos.

But next year my plans is to visit the Northern region of the country and I will visit Las Violetas.

Bill

I recently came back from my second, two week long trip to Buenos Aires. On my last visit I discover this event and it has become one of the hightlights of my BA visits.

Enjoy and if you are in Buenos Aires make the time to go!

Bill

Bill, so happy you had another great trip to Buenos Aires! I am dying to see your new photographs, so when you have them please let me know. Did you go to the CasaSaltshaker again for dinner? We didn't get to do that last summer, unfortunately.
The Feria de Mataderos sounds like a great place. Thanks for sharing that tip.

esperanza

You never visited the La Feria De Mataderos? Make the time to see it, you will thank me.

Yes I did have dinner at Casa Saltshaker again. Excellent and it made me do something I only thought about doing.

At dinner I meet a couple from Tampa Florida and they were staying a B&B outside of BA for a week learning to cook Argentina dishes.

So I took a 1/2 day class learning to make empanadas. It was my first time taking a cooking class and I enjoyed it. I learned how to make beef and corn empanadas, baked and deep fried of each.

There is something special when you sit down to have a good meal that you learn to do yourself.

My next visit to Buenos Aires I will take some more classes, my teacher was a joy to learn from. The link to the class or classes is Cooking with Teresita

This was so fun for me, to learn to cook something I enjoy eating and mind opening to do when I visit Spain again I have to look at taking a cooking class too.

I am still editing the photos.

Bill

I imagine the New York people on the board already saw this, but for anyone who missed it, there was an article about Buenos Aires in today's (16 March) New York Times. Click here to read the article.

I've never been to Argentina, but based on the rave reviews by MM board members and the many positive articles I have read about it, I may have to make a trip there soon. (Also, with the dollar's plummeting value, it may be one of the few foreign countries I can afford to visit! )

I've been thinking on a trip to Buenos Aires for some time now . Spurred on , it not a small way , by the constant hassle I get from my "amigos Argentinos " here in Madrid .Your account has definitely added to my wish to go there .
I was also interested in your photos of the cemetary... I loved them but a word of warning to people in Spain ( I'll post this on another topic area of the message board )

steve - have you been yet???

spent a few weeks there last year - one of my favourite cities!