Virmonsal:

To be sincere, I don't like very much the rules of the Real Academia, because they are too "popular", and include too many neologisms and anglicisms. They are contributing to the decadence of the spanish language, precisely through some unnecesary blend with others.

If people speak some spanish in their second generation in some states in the USA, it is not to do something heroic, as you seem to mean, but to communicate with their family and friends, ho use it also.

However, I believe many people speak that jergon just because they think it's cool. Sounds great in a rap, for example, no? (for you, maybe). I believe this hybrid language, doesn't bring any good, it's only a proof of the degradation of the Spanish in their mouths (since they can also speak american English), and what is worse, that they wouldn't speak it at al (perhaps they would speak english only, but well, at least) unless it sounded cool to them.

So, in my opinion, they are not trying to protect their ancestors language, but to be more lke popular, with very few respect for that venerable language.

Miche:

Folowing your example, I, and I believe Fernando, try to speak the best English we can. If we can't do better, it's not because we don't try the harder possible. We don't insert spanish words all along the text, pronounced wrongly, and above all, we don't do it on purpose.

If our grammar is not perfect, maybe it a 7 out or 10 or a 8 out of 10, or whatever, but not 2 out of 10.

Virmonsal, I don't think the quoted passage makes sense to people who don't already know English...and that is why I fight Spanglish every chance I get. When Spanish speakers feel the language they speak on the border is the same Spanish the rest of the Spanish speaking world speaks and never bother to learn "textbook" Spanish, they limit themselves to only being able to communicate with others like themselves. There are so many opportunities for heritage speakers who never studied the language in school to learn "textbook" Spanish (what we might call standard as opposed to colloquial or regional) that there is no excuse for not doing so other than not wanting to.

A language is a tool to communicate with other people yes, and sometines it is an end itself (literature, poestry,...).

I think we are not talking about speaking perfect spanish (or english). Look the world's spanish, you will find that bolivians spanish is different from Spain's spanish, oh, Spain's spanish... as if we all spoke with the same accent! I may hardly understand a catalonian speaking spanish if his accent is very closed. Hey! Even in Madrid we have our own specific accent, vocabulary and grammatical differences (though it is slightly different from what is considered "super-correct").

So after some generations you can't speak spanish perfect... How is it possible?! I think nobody will be rush to you if you try to speak with your super-yankee accent or if you make some mistakes (moreover if you are one of those few americans who are descendent of an ancient spanish, we are very proud of that community). That is one thing, and spanglish is a completely different phenomena.

The heirs of the ancient spanish jews (sefards) conserve a variety of spanish (spoken and conserved since they were forced to leave Spain five centuries ago!).

Everyone is free to speak whatever language he wants to, english, spanish, spanglish, elf or venusian, but the thing is that the wisest effort is to study (and trying to speak) languages as spread as possible. With spanglish you will be able to communicate some people, but you will be hardly understood in Central and South America and in Spain, and even less with forgeiners (who will usually speak better spanish than ourselves ).

Fernando

PD: Miche, thanks for your comments about my poor english

arrgh,
Fernando, I did not say you have poor English, I have poor Spanish, and to be honest I wish my English was a lot better too, but I keep learning like we all do to improve ourselves.

And that's just it. At least 'we' have the means to. At least we are able to study and have had the privilige to have been able to study and continue studying. Not everyone does and it's that much harder if one comes from a poor background and then grow up with very little incentive and confidence to learn.

If we sometimes can't even understand each other speaking the same language, then why even bother speaking another language or even worse a supposedly universal language -Esperanto.
(idea from Unamuno's 'Mist').

Perhaps when we all try and speak a foreign language we try and convert words which we think may convey what it is we wish to say.
Remember funny things like an English speaking person saying, "soy un poco embrasada" for "I'm a bit embarrased". It's about taking the plunge into the unknown and it's not easy, but as long as you can be understood, I think it's ok.

Also remember that for English speakers Spanish is supposed to be easier. So perhaps it's not that strange that the two should eventually fuse together. Like it or not, it shows just how huge the Spanish and English language users there are in this world, and with boundaries breaking......

Perhaps Spanglish will become a new language.

miche - I seem to remember you and I having our rubbish English grammar corrected in the chat room now and then by a certain native Spanish speaker

I was never taught grammar at school (I was at a Comprehensive in the UK during an 'experimental' time in the 1970's), so the language I use is is what I have heard and read, and what sounds right. I know no rules. Because of this, I think I would find it really really hard to learn a new language - I don't have the familiarity with the terminology to learn it academically.

I could therefore envisage me becoming a prime user of Spanglish :o

PS miche - I'm not sure, but I think Fernando was thanking you because HE thinks his English is poor But of course we know it isn't

Yes, I was not being ironic I was really thanking Miche for saying that my english is good (you should hear me speaking... you would probably change your opinion hehehe).

Fernando

Well, Fernando, if you think she was saying our English was good, then you should go back to your English classes. :p Read it again!

I just imagined a good example:

When I speak with my peruvian friends, they use a lot of slang that comes from quechua language (from the Incas), my ecustorian friends have some mixes with native languages, the argentinian speak a percentage of italian words and grammar mixed, and we also use some slang. All of us use anglicisms, neologisms, and other "isms".

That`s exactly what corrupts the language, making it dificult to understand each other. If spanglish became popular it would be a horrible notice for Spanish, and for English too?

Well, Fernando, if you think she was saying our English was good, then you should go back to your English classes. :p Read it again!

I just imagined a good example:

When I speak with my peruvian friends, they use a lot of slang that comes from quechua language (from the Incas), my ecustorian friends have some mixes with native languages, the argentinian speak a percentage of italian words and grammar mixed, and we also use some slang. All of us use anglicisms, neologisms, and other "isms".

That`s exactly what corrupts the language, making it dificult to understand each other. If spanglish became popular it would be a horrible notice for Spanish, and for English too?

I actually love to hear SPANGLISH spoken. I don't have a problem with it at all. As I have said before, and has fallen on blind eyes, there is a time for SPANGLISH, where? On the corner with your friends or at home.

Shawn

Fernando, thanks.

Jo-Anne, I remember having one lesson in English grammer and it was all gobbledygook. So at that age I was thinking I must be stupid.
And yes I remember a certain Spanish member correcting our English!!! lol. lol.

A novel by 'Ana Lydia Vega', a Puerto Rican author won the 'premio internacional Juan Rulfo' with 'Pasion de historia y otras historias de pasion'. As well as other prizes.

As well as using Spanish typical to Puerto Rico, she uses a considerable amount of Spanglish words in her writing and yet she has success. So, it's not just people who have little education who use Spanglish and Spanglish is not isolated to the US alone. If the Spanish adopt words for convenience now and then, it's not surprising that countries like Puerto Rico and South America use a greater imput of English or mixed English in their language.