Pippo - in NYC, socializing after work is very big but it depends on many factors - If you have an hour of commute back home chances are you won't be hangin' with the guys after work. Ditto if you're a family man who still wants some quality time with the kids in the evening. However the younger people do it all the time, and I can tell from the number of bars and restaurants in my neighborhood, they're all packed during happy hour and beyond. Maybe your friend just happened to fall into a place of old boring guys. It's not a true reflection of life-after-work in the big city.

Another variable is the industry you work in during the day. Some work sites are specifically designed for conviviality. For example where I work, a college, you have a very congenial work ambiance. Partly because our hours are more irregular than a 9 to 5 job, and the fact that leisure is more imbedded in universities and colleges. College and University towns are well known for jolly bistros,winehaus, cafes and bars filled with people with more leisure time on their hands than say working in offices.

From your description it seems that your friend's work mates were commuters. That generally limits social interaction. In these environments it takes some time to establish realtionships.

I must also add that the bar scene one finds in Madrid is very seldom found here in the U.S. One aspect of this is the availability of young people to rent or own their own places and entertaining at home.

And, much like in Spain, Americans like to get to know you for a bit before they bring you home for dinner or a party.

Well, I like reading all your comments, I think
that all your posts get to put in context the commentaries of my friend.
I keep thinking that USA is one of the most unknown developed countries, (I don't know if you understand what I'm trying to say).

pippo, we all speak of our own experiences and probably cannot personally assess regional differences in this regard so I won't try either. I'll only say that where I lived in Ohio the life is very much like your friend described it. The vast majority of people there go to work, then go home, then go to work, then go home. When we do go out, it's most often only with family members to a movie or to eat and that's it. After a certain age most people are married and don't socialize much anymore with other people. It's not necessarily a negative thing just the way it is in the case of my region for the most part.

So now that I'm living in Madrid (as of one week ago) I'm looking forward to this more mobile lifestyle of getting together with the friends I have here, going for walks, going out to eat, visiting people, and things like this. It's SUCH A BIG DIFFERENCE from what I'm used to where I lived in the USA - which was like so many others where I went to work, the gym, home. Then to work, then home. Then to work, the gym, home. Everyday was the nearly the same and only on RARE occasions did I get together with the few friends I had there (as you get older the fewer friends we tend to have because, you know,they get married and are understandably occupied then with their own families and have little time for anything). Mostly I just stayed home and sat in front of my computer and VOILA! You get some developed hobby like MadridMan.com or becoming amazingly efficient in making stained glass windows or some other hobby. Or, as so many people do, they become ULTRA-experts in all the characters in Reality-TV shows like Amazing Race, or American Idol, or Survivor or something like this. Sometimes it makes me sad to see large groups of coworkers getting together every morning to talk about the previous night's Reality Show on TV - and that seems to be the only form of social interaction they have each day with other people, all based on a TV show - about other people they don't know. Oh well. That's just me. hehehe..

Saludos, MadridMan

Pippo writes: That's true, as far as it goes. In New Jersey, High Tech Companies tend to be located in Corporate Centers along Route #1 near Princeton or near a New Jersey Turnpike Interchange (eg. Edison). For the most part these are not residential areas: employees drive to work and drive home.

One explanation might be: your friend was on a Temporary Assignment from Company HQ. When I was in the workforce, it would take much longer than 4-months for someone from the Home Office to earn the trust of the Staff. Would you embrace a Project Manager from the U.S. if he was on assignment from your Home Office??
As Belen03 writes: My son used to work at one of those Hi-Tech Corporate Centers off Turnpike Exit #8. His job depended on his being able to drive back & forth from Philadelphia. Just one DWI or DUI offense would have put him out of business. So he, and many others, saved their socializing for the Neighborhood Tavern.

At the 'prodding' of the Federal Government and threats to cut off Highway Trust Fund money, many States (including New Jersey) have reduced the Blood Alcohol Threshold (for DUI) from 0.01% to 0.008%. That could cause more Driver's License suspensions (or incarceration for repeat offenders).

There's a 'Fear Factor' here. I, for one would be afraid to get behind the wheel after one or two drinks: my livelihood and my family's security and well being might depend on it.

That because the United States is not a country but an idea. A good one that always changing.

Also reading the replies, I think your friend was the problem. When I travel alone I will go out of my way to make friends. Your friend had four months, plenty of time to make new friends, ones that do not have anything connections to work.

When I was working in London a few years ago on the weekend I would become Bill the tourist, do touristy things and meet new people. The people I meet had nothing to do with work.

Bill

Pippo: I really agree with MM's description of what it is to live in the U.S. I think those words describe the average life of grown ups in the U.S.

But in my case (or even in your friend's case) being a foreigner is also an issue. Most my (not-American) friends that work in the U.S. (from NY to Seattle and from Florida to California) feel lonely and, after little time, bored. However, those that are here studying feel happier and more integrated to a group. In general not having many friends and family makes a lonely life anywhere in the world.

My wife and I have both worked in the U.S., and like most of our foreign friends working in the U.S., we found our work environment very respectful and nice, but our bosses and co-workers somewhat indifferent towards us. This is not to say that people aren't friendly in the U.S., on the contrary they have a quick smile and are happy to talk to you, but those exchanges are short and not really in depth. So it is hard to develop friendships.

At some point I understood that my loneliness in the U.S. had to do more with me than with the U.S., itself. I don't think most Americans feel like that, as they have family and long-time friends here. They are also used to spend more time alone at their apartments and homes than people from other countries. For example, spending a Friday or Saturday night watching tv at home is the last thing I plan on doing while I am in Mexico, but when I am in the U.S., that might be a very normal, perfectly fine, every-weekend activity for me, and many Americans.

Hi pippo! I thought I would pop in and add my two cents worth to this conversation, especially since I have experienced what your friend has experienced...but the reverse.

Your friend is right, life in America is very different from life in Spain, and it is very different even within America itself depending on where you live and work (big city, rural country, suburbs, etc.). At the same time, living in a big city anywhere in the world has it challenges and advantages. Keeping that in mind, it is virtually impossible to answer the question "how is the day in the life of an American citizen" since there are so many factors that influence that life.

I have found that in a large part, Spain is a very homogenous country where people do not move too far from where they grew up. This means that family circles and friendships are tight and run deep. People share like minds, similar beliefs and the same culture. When I first moved to Spain, at 33 years of age, I was frustrated at not being able to make friends as easily as I made them in the States, where I also lived in a big city.

In the States, as a working professional in one of the largest cities in the country, I went out frequently with my friends, went to the gym, was involved with many organizations, and made new friends easily. Perhaps this is because people who live in American cities are much more transient and therefore more open to new friendships and experiences. I also had the tools at my disposition to make this happen: easy access to transportation (my own car), a knowledge of the city, and a base group of friends.

I don't know how old your friend is, but the older you are, the more difficult it is to make new friends...especially in a new city, not to mention a new country. It also sounds like he was working in a corporate park...not exactly an environment to cultivate a social life. Just think about the corporate parks that are springing up here around Madrid... in Alcobendas, San Sebastian de los Reyes, Tres Cantos, San Chinarro, etc. They aren't exactly conducive to a post-work social life. In fact, most Spaniards I know who do work in those areas go home after work and socialize with their friends "de toda la vida" rather than stay close to the office.

This same phenomena occurs in the States, where it is more difficult for an outsider, especially in a management position from another country, to make friends if they are working at a corporate park which offers few post-work social options. Much different from working in center city, whether that be on La Castellana, Wall Street or Market Street. Adding the fact that your friend was in the States for only four months makes it that much more difficult. It was a good year before I could say that I had (Spanish) friends that I socialized with on a regular basis.

So, in summary, I don't think your friend was at fault. Nor are Americans, generally speaking, cold and closed. I think simply the working circumstances contributed to your friend's lack of a social life, which is a shame. I really like hearing about foreigners who go to the States to work and have a good time. Two really good friends of mine here in Spain are two Spaniards that I met in a nightclub in Philadelphia while they were working there temporarily (5 months) overseeing the clementine import/export campaigns! For a period of three years, each time they returned to Philadelphia for the annual campaign, they looked my friends and I up and we welcomed them "home".

Pippo, I agree with many of the previous posters; MMan, Becky (specially on the -age- factor), etc...

And, it's all too relative, I believe you're male and live in Tarragona? (maybe I'm totally wrong!), well, as a working female in Madrid I surely wasn't able to "go de cañas", after leaving work past seven thirty or eight o clock, everyday!, I would most likely run, run, run to get some errands done (the vet, the cleaners, you name it) then to the expensive Corte Inglés supermarket because it was still open, to buy some groceries, get home, make dinner, etc...and I was a "super-privilegiada" that didn't have to spend the average 1-hour in public transportation to reach home....I actually walked!
Those were the days when I didn't have to run even more to Becky's language consultancy firm, where I would teach (second job), and so would she (still does), never finishing until ten, getting finally home at about eleven....

Anyway, yes, in Spain there is a certain "cañas-after-work" culture in some places, but nothing compared to the Brits, for instance. Many, many, many Brits do go to the pub after work on a daily basis!, much more than us I dare to believe. But in my view, that doesn't necessarily indicate that life in Britain is more fun, though.
You see, you can't really compare such different cultures.

Also, your post sounds a little like those of all the 'guiris' that go to live in Spain and after a few months realize they haven't made as many friends as they thought they would and dully complain about their poor social lives and never being able to hang out with the locals....well, of course!, people EVERYWHERE have their own lives and they're not waiting for anyone to appear to take them out for cañas!

Guess what, I moved to Brussels in April and I've made only one friend and one acquaintance of my own! an American and a French (I'm not including my boyfriend's co-workers); in this place, where there is no shortage of ex-pats, quite the contrary, we're all over the place!, you'd say it should be a piece of cake, well, no, people still don't want to invest time and energy on just anyone who is going to spend here only a limited amount of time and you still have to be the one to go out of your way to meet folks, but I think that's natural!, Oh, and forget about making friends amongst any Belgian; well, maybe if you're in your early twenties....

One's attitude is a major factor in all this, (did you friend -expect- to go out for cañas or did he actually asked what it was that they did instead for fun and socialising in their spare time, in order to adapt himself to that new environment?).
My boyfriend is a Finn, he lived in Madrid for a year and made several great friends among his colleagues, here he has some....but it's not the same.
OK, part of it may be blamed on the weather, the more outgoing Spanish lifestyle and character....but also in Madrid he made the effort because he was alone, here he has me and he hasn't been trying nearly half as hard.

I'm gonna tell you something: I have been living in Madrid 3 years and the first 6 months I was asking to myself:
Why people say "De Madrid al Cielo"???
Why people say this is a great town??
Why foreigners chosed Madrid like "the most fun european big town"??

For me it was horrible: I was studing and working and I never came back to my flat before 21'30 hours.
I had to run exactly like you did to "El Corte Ingles" and buy food to dinner more than 1 and 2 times.
Me, being a country boy, couldn't like the flat where I lived because I had always lived in a house and in my opinion it was crazy to rent a flat with a person you don't known or rent only a bedroom like some guiris used to do.
Then you have people: people was literally running, they never walked on the street but they literally runned, from here to there from there to here everybody was running.
And then foreigners: I have never seen in all my life so many foreigners, specially sudamericans and people from East Europe or North Africa. (not that I hate them but that I was simply surprised).
I took the Metro for the first time and it shocked me to see people singing a song and play the guitar, I could go on and on.
But there's something that "poco a poco" makes you like this town, I can not explain what, but there's something.
I supose that every town has a magic you have to find it.
I like to talk with people who have traveled around the world because that's what I would like to do if I had the free time.
Now I live near of Valencia, I can tell you that 20% of inhabitants are foreigners, specially romanians, british and germans, romanians came here to work but english and germans came because the sun, I know everybody is a little bit shocked by the different customs but when I talk to them they say people here "is easy going"
I thought that's true but after reading all messages of this thread, it only depends of the eyes who see it.