DD go see a therapist. I am serious; it can help you a lot. When your therapist asks why you visit him don't forget to mention "I'm a Phantom that brings up Saddam, my ex-wife and William R. Herste to every conversation because I like to improve people's thinking." That will make his diagnosis much easier.

I have to agree with Barry and others. While I have found little to agree with DD on and usually avoid reading any of his posts because of that, comments referring to unhappiness about having to contribute to paying for body bags is an all time low.

I think by it's very nature this board brings together intelligent people who understand that his opinions are NOT American's opinion, or even MOST American's opinions, they are ONLY his opinions.

DD I take offense when you make comments such as you have here and loop me in to them. I defend your right to your opinion, but I would ask you to stop presenting THE American opinion, you do not speak for me.

All of you people so horrified and offended by Desert Dwellers arguments,

Why don't you offer more rebuttals and less personal attacks. Then I could take you more seriously.

Land grab from Mexico. That's a good one. I'm sure the citizens of Texas, California and the rest would just love to be part of Mexico. Let's take a vote.

Gazpacho: Seemingly you are the only one that picked up on what was meant by the comment about the body bags. What I meant was, we would not have to buy the body bags if Mexico would attack it's own economic problems. Since Mexico will not attack it's own problems, in many cases we the American taxpayers are left to pick up the tab.

One thing that not one person from the left, that is telling me what a low life I'am, has thought to point out, is that Mexico is the US's largest trading partner. The busiest international port in the world is between Chula Vista, California and Tijuana, Mexico.

Two of my business partners and I went down to Mexico to see about the possiblity of opening a cabinet shop. We would have employed about thirty people. You would not believe the red tape they tried to put us through. Then it became obvious that what they really wanted was payola. Granted we have not located a place to put the shop, but have met every offical in town, and then the chief of police introduced us to the head of the union. This gentleman would of course find us only the best craftsman, for a fee of course. We found out later that the chief and the union boss are brother-in-laws

Mexico has a vast amount of natural resources, they have a good and able work force. Those two assets are being frittered away by a corrupt government. We would not need to bring the body bags to the desert if they would attack the econmic problems at home. Instead Mexico feels the solution is to export the poor and unemployed to the neighbor to the north. They have been handling the problem that way for so long now, that they have become dependant on it, and are resentful when we attempt to seal the border.

All you left wingers that think I am such a terrible person, log onto anyone of the newspapers here in the desert southwest. www.arizonarepublic.com www.lvrj.com those are just two, read them daily for a couple of months and see what is not being reported in Novi, Michigan and Seattle, Washington or Madrid Spain. As an employer of over 75 people I am exposed to this issue on a daily basis and I can assure each and every one of you, this is a much more serious problem than you seemingly will admitt.

I wish all of you nothing but the best. Jabch I might take you up on the recomendation of a therapist. Maybe he will recomend a nice relaxing vaction in Mexico.

Thank you barry, jbach and ditravelphoto. You saved me some time. I've skipped the rest of DD's posts once I read about the body bags. Offensive people such as he are not worth my attention. I thought the original topic was interesting. Mexico is a beautiful place, too bad there is so much corruption, and such a separation between rich and poor. I'm surprised to hear any reference to a middle class--I didn't think there was one. Speaking purely selfishly, I'm glad we didn't also take over Baja California. It's nice to drive down there, see the beautiful coastline and imagine how California was before we developed it all. Similar to southern Portugal, but minus the castles. Surfer heaven.

I want to make clear that nobody in Mexico likes to see a son, daughter, mother, father, brother, sister, or anyone in the family leave Mexico. Just think of yourself in the same position. These people are not a problem "shipped" to the U.S. They are human beings with real needs and forced to leave their loved ones and own land for a better life. In fact think of your great parents when they left Europe to come to the U.S., they probably came here under the same conditions.

As to making a survey too see who wants to be part of Mexico again. The answer is obvious. However, think that if you are born in the U.S., generally that's all you know. In my own family there are people with dual U.S. – Mexican citizenship and they have chosen to stay in Mexico. Why? Because that is were they grew up and where they have had the opportunity to succeed. So when they have come to live in the U.S., they haven’t found here all they need to be happy and they go back. But they don’t have the economic pressure to stay in the U.S. So it goes both ways. If you make a survey among all Mexicans in the U.S., I can assure you that most of them want to go back to Mexico, but they can’t due to economic reasons. I hope what I said makes sense.

My daughter's would be surprised by the Desert Dweller’s characterization that I am a left wing radical.

Mexico doesn’t have a middle class, the real economic engine of any economy. Mexico is not exporting immigrants. United States employers are importing their workforce because they are unable to find workers to perform strenuous manual labor. The Mexican emigrants cross the border because they can get jobs. If they could get jobs in Mexico, they would stay there. How does Mexico get jobs for its workforce? Foreign Investment. Investment in infrastructure projects is the most vital step towards development and job creation. It is an open secret that domestic financial resources are insufficient and foreign investments are a necessity. To attract foreign investments, it is necessary for the government to guarantee security of investments and prepare the ground for foreign investors to easily operate here through creating an effective taxation system.

Desert Dweller’s story about the corruption in Mexico, it could have happened in Chicago!

Jabch: You are right to point out that leaving loved ones is a hard thing to do. Leaving home is never an easy thing to do. You are also right about the European immagrants having to leave family and friends to come to the US. When I left Oregon in 1970 to come to Arizona it was not easy. The overwhelming majority of the people from Mexico that come up here are hard working people looking for one thing and one thing only, A Job. In the case of my business I have seven people from Mexico working for me. (I say people it is 4 men and 3women) They are all here legally and have the proper documents to prove that point. There is a percentage that come up here from Mexico, that as soon as they cross the border attempt to jump on as we say "the government gravy train."

Every Wednesday morning at my office, I sign the payroll tax check for the entire business operation. We are now large enough that the governement insist on weekly payments. Once a year we have a large company meeting and inform everyone what was made that year, what is projected for next year, and where the money went and what they can expect in the way of raises. It is done in the open, and the books are available for one and all to see, no questions asked. I just wish that you could see the sad faces when I explain to them the raises are going to be small and that the taxes and health insurance have ate up the profit. Just this week it was announced on the radio, that the cost of the uninsured people is accounting for about $900 in the annual health insurance premium for those who have health insurance. Putting that all into perspective when I sign that tax check, and know that the cost of health insurance is increased because of uninsured, then I read on an internet web site where a person from a foriegn country "expects" the US to do something for his fellow countrymen. Especially when that person is from country that's leader said no when our's asked for military help just a few years ago. I think you can understand why I can turn into a very nasty man, or to quote Barry "extremely poor taste." I printed your remark about "expect" from the US and posted it on the bulletin board in the shop yesterday. What I said was mild compared to what was said by the people in the shop. Within a few minutes it had obsenities written all over it, and before an hour had gone by it was torn down with foot prints all over it.

Until such time as Mexico is willing to attack it's corrupt officals, that infusion of foriegn capital that Gsobotta talks about will not come. Leaving home to find work will remain the norm.

Incidently Jabch, I printed the one where you told me I need a therapist and put that on the bulletin board also. They all liked that one, "yeah, boss we have told you that for years" "now it is known around the world what a pain in the a-- you are boss." Those are just two of the comments that they wrote on it. So for now you are their hero.

Desert Dweller,

As much as I agree with your assessment of Mexico, I have to ask myself, who can blame them for how they handle their affairs? Do they have a corrupt government?...All governments are corrupt, including ours. Ours is mostly corrupt because it exceeds the function of a proper government, which is to defend it's members against physical force and not all the other social fluff we pay for. We may tell Mexico they have to clean up their act, but it's a little hypocritical.

And what country, besides the U.S., doesn't have the same mentality as Mexico? And, hell, half of our country no longer believes in a free economy. That's why it's Hilary in 2008. This last bastion of economic freedom is sinking I feel. Hail egalitarianism, the equality of the grave.

While I must agree with you that Mexico is a horrible problem for the U.S., and that their policy leads to many innocent Mexican deaths, I don't see any quick solution. I'm more concerned with us maintaining the Utopia we truly have here, than expecting the Mexicans to clean up their government.

DD the issue of immigration is also to be blamed on the American government. Immigration won’t be stopped by the Arizona dessert or Los Pinos. It will be stopped when the most powerful country in the world stops playing the big corporations game and passes a law that requires effective proof of residency or citizenship to obtain a job in this country. How do you think the millions of illegal immigrants managed to not only crossed the borders of the most powerful country, but also to get a house, buy a car, and open a bank account here? It is your own country allowing this. It benefits business. Immigration is not new and your government knows how to solve the issue, but they won’t. What do you want? Fox to say, U.S. please pass a law that will stop millions of dollars from coming to my economy. Of course it won’t happen and Mexico won’t move a finger to stop this. But this does not make the U.S. less responsible for the whole situation.

Also, you posted my message at work and your employees think you are right and I’m wrong. Oh! How surprising. Please don’t fool yourself. They are your employees!!! Why don’t you better ask the members of the board?

Ok. And going back to the original subject:

I saw on PBS a program about the relationship between Walmart and China. I was really surprised to see the amount of American companies and jobs that have been shifted to Asia and specifically to China. I don't even understand why the U.S. is giving so much leverage to China.

In this context, I think Mexico had a similar opportunity when it became part of NAFTA, but I never saw the kind of massive investment that is going on in China happening in Mexico. I don't know to what extent the American corporation is just shopping around for the best cheap-labor market and every time they find a new market the investment will get bigger; or whether Mexico failed to capitalize on this opportunity to attract and make American companies stay in Mexico. As far as I know a lot of American companies have left, are thinking of leaving or have reduced its presence in Mexico to increase operations in China. Most Companies in Mexico stay to offer services to Mexican consumers or because the closeness with the U.S. is important to them. I think of Mexico as the big looser to China.

Do you think that if the U.S. had invested half what they invest in China it would have been really good for Mexico and the U.S.? Meaning less immigration and social service expenses for the U.S. and more jobs and investment in Mexico.