As for the info from Morocco, it looks to me as very probable that they offered.

But in despicing it, is one of the few things I applaud from PP government or spanish police, because Morocco sends all the time mixed info, where oppositors to their anti-democratic regime are reported as terrorists even if they have not touched a gun or related to fundamentalists in thier entire life. So, paying attention to them would have meant investigating a lot of people, most of which wouldn't be, and spanish police knows this.

All governments have taken advantage of the fall of Civil Liberties that the USA impulsed with their "make absolutely clear you host no terrorists or we blow you up" policy, but few ones have take advantage of it politically against their government political rivals as much as Russia, Spain and Morocco.

However, what is known and is a wrong behaviouris that CNI (spanish CIA) asked to the police for help to watch the would-be chief of the authors of the bombing because they were specially interested in him, and the police rejected the demand.

Wolf, perhaps you are right, I guess this is going to be a long-lasting fight, but...why should most of political debate be focused on this issue? There is no point on that. Let police and secret services worry about it!
You mention both sides in this fight and yes, I know one of them: mostly US Department of State and its allies. But, who is on the other side? So far, Lybia and Israel have admitted that they support terrorism, but none of them has suffered any harassment. Irak, on the other hand, has been invaded without supporting terror. So to whom are we fighting, and for what reason?
I still think that all this is about procastinating REAL problems. By now we should be talking about things like Greenhouse effect, underdevelopment, new diseases and the Hubbert Peak: in 10-20 years these problems are really going to count, when we have forgotten about damned Osama Ben Laden.
http://www.hubbertpeak.com/

Cristobo,

The Hubbert Peak is one that bothers me, because I do believe we are at the peak right now. If we, as people, don't look to alternative fuel sources outside of oil, we are going to be facing a severe crisis.

What concerns me even more is that wars will be outwardly fought to control oil sources and nobody will say it's for any other cause than the protection of their "rights" as they'd try to make us believe, to extract it from the ground, no matter where it is.

Years ago there was a movie in the US called "Red Dawn." In it, the Communist nations attacked the US because we had the natural resources they didn't have, and the food growing capabilities.

In the story, the western part of the US was controlled by the Communists, and a war was still going on for control.

It might be far reaching to believe it could be the US, but we could very well see this happen in the area we call the Middle East. It would be the true beginning of WWIII I'm afraid.

We do have to start facing these issues. We have to do it now, because our children, and grandchildren, have to live on what's left of this earth when we're gone, and our legacy has to be that we've done the best we can to secure their futures.

Thanks for the post on the Peak. Excellent information for all of us to look at and relate to.

Wolf

I am GLAD that the shortage of oil is coming/will soon come, and I wish there was too on uranium. IMO, this would be easily solved through alternative energies like aeolic, where Spain is pioneer (I believe now we have about a 11% of the total electric production out of this, and increasing) or solar (which in Spain, or California, for example, are factible).

And the increase on the price of oil just makes them more competitive.

Puna:

PIM quote:

My quote:

Your quote:

Yes, but the point is that when you say "a person wont stay one more day in his position", you mean this person is dismissed, which should be the first of his responsabilities, apart from civil and ciminal procedures.

Unfortunately, these people were there until the party was tossed off, and we had to suffer them for the whole 4 years period.

This says very few things on the supposed "democracy" and in the party itself, be it PP with the above eexamples, or former PSOE governments with GAL killers, or newer PSOE governments indulting, or freeing through other means the responsibles of the "dirty war" or simply thiefs, like the subsecretary Vera, former minister Barrionuevo, and former General MAnager of Guerdia Civil and Civil Governor of Navarra or La Rioja Roldán (without giving back the 8 or 9 million euros he's got in Thailand).

Parties are here too monolithic and non-permenable or sensible to people's opinion. You just vote the less bad and hope next year they will steal less.

And a more realistic way to look at the situation is at least you have the vote!

People aren't perfect - and God knows, governments certainly aren't - but you do have the right to vote - and the right to speak/write your thoughts ... (and yes, Ignacio - you do! )

And when one considers the alternatives?

I do, but for how long? I have been about to be banned several times, and some of these days those "democrats" and "heroes of civil rights" will make it and I'll be able to post no more.

I am not imagining, you know my story here. Not citisizing anything now, just showing up the point that free speech is free (as far as the spanish law allows me, in my case ) as long I am allowed and no more.

With your vote you select people who are previously engaged in debts with powerful lobbies that won't let them act freely or even dictate them what they are to do. Many times I have wondered wether the presidents of he countries are our (the people's employees) or just executives of the companies that set them there through their controlled media and through massive marketing including advertising.

If they are not previously sold, many times they sell themselves afterwards, because very few honest politicians reach power, there is a natural selection that puts apart the honest ones as faulty. IMO, vey few honest reach power.

So, what is worth voting the good guys if one year later they will be sold and be the bad guys too?

I give other political systems a 0 out of 10, but... how much must I give to this "so called" democracy, so far away from the originary greek concept of "democracy"? a 1? 2? am I generous and give a 3?

Yes, it's the best but it's a sh*t.

Ignacio,

You and I are very, very close in our opinions about politics.



This pretty much describes our situation. Especially about stealing less.

A common point.

Something strikes me as funny Ignacio,

The original Greek form of democracy?!?!? Surely you jest. At least we are taught in our schools here that the Greeks in Plato's times were slave holders. And certainly you don't think that women were allowed a voice? Only the original old families, of only Athens by the way, were allowed to vote. Sometimes you tickle me.