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#78148 - 08/03/04 05:56 AM Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 Your opinion!
MadridMan Offline


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Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 9080
Loc: Madrid, Spain (was Columbus, O...
Question: If everything in Fahrenheit 9/11 is lies & false why aren't there any news stories from "the right" about Michael Moore or the production company being sued for SLANDER?? confused

You'd think "the right" would be suing left AND right if they could prove everything (or ANYTHING) was false in order to discredit Michael Moore and the movie. Anyone? Or can documentaries say what they want? Even the USA's 1st Ammendment of "Freedom of Speach" won't protect someone's lies, will it?

(Definition of "Slander": slan·der
n.
1. Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.)
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#78149 - 08/03/04 08:41 AM Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 Your opinion!
gazpacho Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 797
Loc: Macomb, MI U.S.
Madridman,

What newstories from the right? All the media in the U.S. is extremely leftist, with the one exception, I guess, of FOX news, which is moderately, no less than that, to the right, from what I have seen watching it.

And to tell you the truth, I don't think anyone from the right would give Michael Moore the satisfaction of even recognizing him as significant let alone credible. Besides, there is artistic license. He is free to have an opinion. As we use to say in the military, opinions are like hemmorhoids, every a******** has one. I guess that would include me. eek

No, in short, the best thing to do with someone like Mr. Moore, is put him on ignore. Works for me. :p
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#78150 - 08/03/04 12:07 PM Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 Your opinion!
MadridMan Offline


Executive Member

Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 9080
Loc: Madrid, Spain (was Columbus, O...
Gazpacho wrote:
Quote:
Madridman,
What newstories from the right?
NO news stories from the right. That's the question. There are NO news stories whatsoever about anyone suing Michael Moore and the movie producers. Kind of odd, eh? If they're all lies it MUST be easy to prove they're lies....RIGHT? rolleyes And THAT would be slander. I'd think there'd be no better way to STOP people from seeing the movie than to sue for slander to show that the movie is an absolute lie.... EVEN FINDING and SUING FOR ONE LIE would help to discredit the rest but no, nothing at all. This, to me, speaks volumes.

By the way, my sister and I never could find the time to go see it together. She said she'd watch it "back home". My ladyfriend in Madrid saw the movie last Saturday night and said the theater was FULL. She also said that there wasn't much in the movie that most Spaniards didn't already know, though. She really liked the ending to the film where Moore quoted a paragraph from George Orwell's 1984 about WHY wars are waged. That was cool for me too because I had just read 1984 a couple weeks before seeing the film. I'm at work now, but does anyone have that quote from the movie? Could you post it here? Thanks! smile

Saludos, MadridMan
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#78151 - 08/03/04 12:21 PM Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 Your opinion!
Booklady Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
Quote:
"In accordance with the principles of double-think it does not matter if the war is not real. For when it is, victory is not possible. The
war is not meant to be won, but it is meant to be continuous."
George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-foura.k.a. Eric Blair

Quoted at the end of Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11

It is interesting to note that Orwell earned his views about war during his participation in the Spanish Cilvil War.

There is a nice bio at this site:
Quote:
he [Orwell] went to Spain at the end of 1936, with the idea of writing newspaper articles on the Civil War, which had broken out there. The conflict in Spain was between the communist, socialist Republic, and General Franco's Fascist military rebellion. When Orwell arrived in Barcelona he was astonished by the atmosphere he found there: what had seemed impossible in England seemed a fact of daily life in Spain. Class distinctions seemed to have vanished. There was a shortage of everything, but there was equality. Orwell joined in the struggle by enlisting in the militia of the POUM (Partido Obrero de Unificación de Marxista), which was associated with the British Labour Party For the first time in his life socialism seemed a reality, something for which it was worth fighting for. Orwell received a basic military training and was sent to the front in Aragon, near Zaragoza. He spent a couple of dull months there, and he was wounded in the throat. Three and a half months later, when he returned to Barcelona, he found it a changed city. No longer a place where the socialist word &#8220;comrade&#8221; was really felt to mean something, it was a city returning to "normal". Even worse, he was to find that the group he was with, the POUM, was now accused of being a Fascist militia, secretly helping Franco. Orwell had to sleep in the open to avoid showing his papers, and eventually managed to escape into France with his wife. His account of his time in Spain was published in Homage to Catalonia (1938). His experiences in Spain left two impressions on Orwell's mind: firstly, they showed him that socialism in action was a human possibility, if only a temporary one. He never forgot the exhilaration of those first days in Barcelona, when a new society seemed possible, where "comradeship", instead of being just a socialist abuse of language, was reality. But secondly he saw the experience of the city returning to normal as a gloomy confirmation of the fact that there will always be different classes, that there is something in the human nature that seeks violence, conflict, power over others. It is clear that these two impressions, of hope on the one hand, and despair on the other are entirely contradictory. Nevertheless, despite the despair and confusion of his return to Barcelona (there were street fights between different groups of socialists), Orwell left Spain with a hopeful impression.

In 1938, Orwell became ill with tuberculosis and spent the winter in Morocco. While being there, he wrote his next book, a novel entitled Coming up for Air, published in 1939, the year the long-threatened war between England and Germany broke out. Orwell wanted to fight, as he has done in Spain, against the fascist enemy, but he was declared physically unfit. In 1941 he joined the British Broadcasting Corporation as talks producer in the Indian section of the eastern service. He served in the Home Guard, a wartime civilian body for local defence. In 1943 he left the BBC to become literary editor of the Tribune and began writing Animal Farm. In 1944 the Orwells adopted a son, but in 1945 his wife died during an operation. Towards the end of the war, Orwell went to Europe as a reporter. Late in 1945 he went to the island of Jura off the Scottish coast, and settled there in 1946. He wrote Nineteen Eighty-Four there. The island's climate was unsuitable for someone suffering from tuberculosis and Nineteen Eighty-Four reflects the bleakness of human suffering, the indignity of pain. Indeed, he said that the book wouldn't have been so gloomy had he not been so ill. Later that year he married Sonia Brownell. He died in January 1950.
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#78152 - 08/03/04 01:42 PM Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 Your opinion!
MadridMan Offline


Executive Member

Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 9080
Loc: Madrid, Spain (was Columbus, O...
Thanks for the notes, Booklady. By the way, I'm just starting Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia", about his real life experiences during Spain's Civil War. Looks to be a good book.
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#78153 - 08/03/04 03:25 PM Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 Your opinion!
gazpacho Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 797
Loc: Macomb, MI U.S.
C'mon Madridman,

Even you can see that if the right decided to sue Michael Moore for slander, there would be more people going to see his movie than ever. There is no such thing as bad publicity. Do you really think W gives a darn about a malcontent like Michael Moore?

Well, anyway, from what I've been hearing from the movie reviews, this film has pretty well run it's course. A flash in the pan. Mike's probably laughing his way to the bank as I write this.
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#78154 - 08/03/04 05:55 PM Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 Your opinion!
Wolf Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 1235
Loc: Rockford, IL/Milton, WI, USA
So Moore is telling the truth? Here's an interesting article from online that I found today. I guess the wimp has been caught big time doctoring his "evidence" for his pack of lies.

-------------------------------

07/31/2004 03:36 PM ID: 41656
Newpaper Wants Apology From Moore for Doctored Newspaper
The Bloomington (Ill.) Pantagraph is apparently upset over film maker Michael Moore's use of their newspaper for the movie Farenheit 9/11. The newspaper is seeking compensatory damages of $1 million dollars against Moore and Lions Gate Entertainment.
A scene in the movie shows newspaper headlines about the 2000 contested presidential election, which included a shot of the Pantagraph's front page from Dec. 19, 2001, with the headline "Latest Florida recount shows Gore won election".
The headline was not on the front page of the paper, but rather found in small type above the "letter to the editor" segment, which only reflects the opinions of the writer of the letter. Moore's distributor Lions Gate Entertainment did not comment.

--------------------------------------

On that note, it's obvious you can't believe one damned thing the man says or does. To intentionally doctor a newspaper and headline to make your point, with a lie, tells us exactly what Michael Moore is. A liar and a fraud.

But for those who want to go on believing him because it makes them "feel good" because he's offering another "spook in the closet," be my guest. But you really ought to take a look at what a fraud this guy really is, and pick out better "role models" of truth to believe in.

Wolf

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#78155 - 08/03/04 08:54 PM Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 Your opinion!
gazpacho Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 797
Loc: Macomb, MI U.S.
Oh but Wolf,

Michael Moore must be telling the truth because he's against that evil President Bush. Bush is starving the old people, corrupting the young, raping the cattle and stealing the women, or make that the other way around, I think. He gives all the rich people tax breaks and wants everyone to lose their Medicare benefits.....Did I miss anything....Oh yeah....corporate greed.

Fellow Americans, you don't know how good you have it.
_________________________
"I swear -by my life and my love of it -that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

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#78156 - 08/04/04 06:37 AM Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 Your opinion!
Wolf Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 1235
Loc: Rockford, IL/Milton, WI, USA
Gazpacho,

I'm not actually "pro-Bush," but I am against the idea that a Michael Moore can spread malicious lies and have people follow his offerings like cattle. The only thing that really matters is truth, and when it's subverted by anyone - to further a political cause - it's wrong.

People have to learn to live with truths, not fiction from a source that fails to understand that people deserve better.

On the issue of Bush, I don't really see where he's created a record to be proud of. Over the last 3+ years, all I've seen him do is put us into deficit spending, then have the Republican Party have the audacity to call it the fault of the Democrats because they "allowed" America's defenses to falter. Once again, the truth is, Bush has eliminated our surplus tax money, ravaged Social Security, and given tax cuts that really don't mean much to the little person, but a lot to those who have power, influence, and large financial investments.

With the small tax cut the average person is getting we have to understand that down the road, the deficit will have to be paid off. So where will that money come from? Us, as citizens. It certainly won't come from the major corporations in America, because it's been recently brought to everyone's attention through the Freedom of Information Act, that most of the major US corporations don't pay a nickel's worth of taxes.

That's truth. We have to deal with it. So, are we really in need of another four years of Bush just because he's a Republican?

Wolf

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#78157 - 08/04/04 07:40 AM Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 Your opinion!
gazpacho Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 797
Loc: Macomb, MI U.S.
You're right Wolf,

Now, this type of criticism I can understand, and I feel the same way about the man. He doesn't have an outstanding record, but he's not a total disgrace either. I don't mind someone pointing out President Bush's shortcomings, but what I hear on this message board is insanity, that is, total lack of regard for reason. And yeah, being a Republican does not make everything he does right. I really wish the Democrats would have picked an honorable candidate who had more to offer than President Bush. I wish they had the integrity to offer up someone who really reflects the values of their party instead of hiding behind an empty suit.

As far as corporations not paying taxes, from my point of view that would be just fine. I want corporations in America to have freedom to expand and provide us with the good lifestyle we enjoy here. The good life we enjoy in the U.S. isn't the result of the welfare-state, it's the ability of individuals to compete and rise to their highest ambitions and abilities. The many jobs created by corporate America helps a vast majority of people do this. And, after all, a tax on corporations is a fiction. The taxes are always on the consumer of products produced by corporations. What a myth.

I can understand anyone disagreeing and not liking President Bush. But you shouldn't have to go to a movie to find out why. This is just bizarre. confused

Here it is, I finally found it. This is the play book for all those Bush-bashing on this thread.

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
- Joseph Goebbels

This pretty well sums up Michael Moore's artistic ability as well.
_________________________
"I swear -by my life and my love of it -that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

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