Madridman,

Thinking that the U.S. should be following the Geneva Convention is not leftist. But when you agree with Chica 100%, perhaps you could tell me, who she is apologizing to? And when you say that the President will be looking for a new job in 2004, need I say more.

No, the right is not alway right. But to paraphrase an expression from basic training, "it might not always be right, but it's never wrong." To me, the left is alway wrong -when it gets to spinning, and spinning it almost constantly does.

Yeah, Franco was to the right, but only as far right as a Socialist can get, which creates much conflict. You can't have a viable capitalist society without individual rights.

Bottom line. Yes, the photos are dispicable, but no, not outrageous as the left would have them be. To me, they're just bizarre.

Chica,

Sharing your life story here on this bulletin board? Is that what must be done to infer what someone shares in their posts?

Umm.. Gazpacho, Chica wasn't apologizing to anyone about the topic itself just about its original placement (in the Political Commentary category). If you read the first line in her posting: And my suggestion of the possibility that Bush will be looking for a new job HARDLY constitutes a leftist statement. That's laughable. I certainly hope you're not implying that anything critical said about our US President is a LEFTIST statement.

So Gazpacho, if the LEFT is always wrong to you, you'd say that all democrats are in the wrong? They're "left", you know (is only slightly left of center but still LEFT).

And Gazpacho wrote: Wow... That statements says quite a lot - about which I won't comment.

I think I'm done with this thread. Just goes to show that we're all shouting into a black hole, here.

Saludos, MadridMan

At the end of WWII, the allies treated Nazi guerillas who continued fighting as being terrorists. As such, they had no rights, and when caught, were summarily presented to a military court, and if found guilty, immediately taken out and shot or hung. This was not considered a violation of their rights under any treaties, or agreements, including the Geneva Convention.

Since these terrorist guerillas in Iraq are operating under the same premise, and find it possible to execute an American civilian whose only crime was to be there as a truck driver, to rebuild their nation, do we owe them the respect that we've been discussing here in this thread?

If you haven't taken the time to watch an American civilian being beheaded by the crudest of means, it might be time that you find a site out here on the internet and take a damned good look at the type of people that we're apologizing for treating badly. It might give you a slightly different perspective on the issue.

This doesn't make what has happened in Iraq to prisoners any different, but it does shed a little light on the savagery of the people who some people are feeling sorry for. To me, they are animals, and instead of incarcerating them in the future, we should use military justice, and eliminate them from being capable of rendering any further harm to humanity.

Wolf

What makes 'us' different from 'them'? That they do this kind of brutalities and we don't.
If we start to cross the line, we will be no different from them , and everything will be justified.
This is suposed to be a civilized against barbaric people conflict.
Let's keep it that way. Torture is unacceptable always, no matter against whom.

Hear, Hear Wolf,

Chica, where's the outrage!?!?!?!

Madridman, do you agree 100%

I'm too disgusted to say more.

Here's something that people should read.

Article 1, Geneva Convention: Paragraph 2:

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions: (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

To be treated under the accords of the Geneva Convention, the above stated criteria must exist. Please note it specifically DOES NOT include anyone who would fight in civilian clothes, and act the part of a terrorist. When arguing the Convention, people might want to take note of this, because any idea that these terrorist/guerillas are part of any military is absurd. They are terrorists, plain and simple, and have absolutely no rights under the agreements of the accords. To treat them as if they have this right is not necessary, and downright foolish.

You may "rage" against what I said, and you have a right to do so. But first, please take the time to watch Mr. Berg being beheaded. Then post your feelings about how we are "abusing" people who are terrorists.

Wolf

I think the point is that the "people who we are feeling sorry for" are ordinary Iraqi civilians who ended up getting stuck in a prison for no real reason. As for the people who committed the horrible execution of Mr Berg, you can assume these are not just Iraqi citizens and are terrorists as you said. To lump these two groups of people together is exactly what we don't need happening : On the one side we will have Iraqis thinking that *ALL* of the US military are torturers and murderers and the US thinking that *ALL* Iraqis are terrorists and murderers. Both sets of wrongdoers should be dealt with but not at the expense of everyone else.

Madridman,

Complete annihilation of terrorism....Sign me up.

Poor old Iraqi civilians....Puh-lease.

Guys and gals of the Madridman bulletin board! This is not time to sit and drink tea and have a conference about our differences..This is war. Get it!?!?!

Gazpacho,
you're getting fanatical here.
what's the difference between an Iraqi citizen and an American citizen? there is no difference. there are terrorists from every country and there are innocent people from every country. please don't make assumptions about people's innocence or guilt based on their nationality. that's just absurd.

"Poor old Iraqi civilians....Puh-lease."

Yes, most of them are poor after 10 years of sanctions...