Hello Wolf:

I.m sorry cause I don.t have time to answer before:

1.- I only DISAGREED in a POINT with the information of the link , only ONE:
It said that the USA aid was "hummanitary aid" , and that is false cause members of the USA governement have recognized that they armed the Talibans cause thought they could stabilize the country, ( one of them Wolfowitz).
I think is not a dishonorable argument to say that.
I don.t say anything more of the link , sometimes cause I think that are well argued and sometimes ( most of them) cause I don.t know too if it was true.

2.- I don.t wanted start a political thread against USA , cause if I wanted do that I had mentioned the list of USA world attacks or agressions that are showed in BFC when the song
"What a wonderfull world" it.s played.

3.- I.m not against USA , you can read some topics posted by me defending USA and defending his rising in the WW2.
I don.t hate USA , I think Kosovo and Bosnia were good actions. But I think too that Irak was a bad move , and Argentina-Chile aid too the dictatorship and Vietnam was almost genocides.
But in the other hand all the first power countries in History like UK. , Spain or France have made some genocides too.

4.- I.m against the guns and the guns selling , but I am not from USA , and if you want buy a gun or teach your five years old son how use a gun is your problem . For me that it.s simple INCREDIBLE , and I think is not a good thing to sell guns in a supermarket. But well I.m not american.

5.- I have read with atenttion all the messages that you and others have posted. I.m not a CLOSE MINDED MAN.

Saludos

PIPPO

Guns Guns Guns. I grew up with all sorts of guns here in Ohio as many people outside the cities do. We did a fair amount of hunting (and fishing) but after leaving home for college I rarely shot another pistol, rifle, or shotgun.

Now, it seems that Ohio, my home state, just passed a law allowing people to legally CARRY guns if they get a permit and pass a course.

I never did rent the movie over the weekend as I'd hoped but will try to do it soon.

Saludos, MadridMan

Hey Madridman!! , we.re waiting your review of the film. I hope you couls see it this week.

Saludos.

For people who live in the city, there is very little need to have a gun, but for those who live in the country it is a different situacion. As a youg girl I lived on a large ranch where a gun was a standard part of our equipment. The same is true today on ranches. Guns are used for protecion against wild animals, to euthanize injured animals, and for entertainment (target practice). (City kids do their target practicing using video games.)

Guns have a purpose. They are not the problem.

By the way, I met a farmer near Ronda,Spain who was thrilled to talk to me about his rifle collection. I was surprised to discover that we had so much in common!!

MadridMan,

It's amazing how many states are allowing people to walk around armed in public. To be honest, that bothers me. That's a throw back to the old west, where the gun was law. I thought we got past that point in our history, but here it comes again.

The recreational usage of guns for fishing and target shooting really shouldn't have become part of the issue of gun legislation in my opinion, but because it did with the anti-gun protesters, it gave those who thought every American who had a right to be armed license to push the issues of everyone looking like Wyatt Earp. Therein lies the problem. We seem to end up going off on tangents way too often in these political arenas and the only winners end up being those who are are on one polar end of an issue or the other.

I could see the way your family treated guns in your post. It was respect for them, and others, not carelessly.

My collection consists of several guns, including the handguns I used as a police officer since at that time we had to buy our own. I too haven't fired any of them in years, but they are mine, I do have ammunition for them, and I did insist that each of my children take responsible training in the usage of firearms to insure they weren't lacking in respect for them. What I have never done, and won't is pass these guns on to one of my children as heirlooms. Not because I feel that it's wrong to own them, but because I cannot guarantee that future generations in my family will be as well trained and disciplined in their handling of guns.

Now that brings up another dilemma. Since I don't believe in selling guns at "swap meets," the market for them isn't very good. Even though my guns are worth thousands of dollars, I can only get a few bucks for them in what I consider legitimate gun stores.

Therefore, I'm considering having the firing pins removed, and the barrels plugged, to insure they can never be used again, and turning them into a display. It's a hard decision on this one. I'm not certain which way I will go with it, but the new laws allowing citizens to wear a gun on the street concern me. I certainly don't want to be the person responsible for allowing one of my grandchildren to walk around the streets of Chicago or Madison, WI toting a gun. That to me is wrong.

Tough situation we're in, isn't it? I just wish I knew what the answer was to the situation.

Wolf

Wolf,

I've read your point of view on many topics and we see eye-to-eye on most. I've never bought a gun, but I've had a couple handed down to me as heirlooms. I have lots of grave concerns about the NRA, who seem sometime to only be happy if every U.S. citzen were allowed to carry an atomic bomb.
Having said that, I find an annoying elitest theme common amongst my friends who are avid gun collectors and yourself. It seems the pervasive theme is that you think it is alright for you to own a gun because you're a more responsible individual, but heaven help us if someone else wants to own a gun. They are not beyond suspicion unless proven so by you.
Now I can understand not giving guns to criminals, very young people, or people with mental issues (is that polically correct enough?) but anyone else in this country has as much right to a gun as I do.

Gazpacho,

Actually we totally agree on the subject. I feel exactly the same way as you do about owning guns. All I'd say is that anyone who owns them should be free of a criminal record, they should be properly instructed in handling them, and they should be licensed. I'd also put restrictions on them, because I don't see the need for anyone to own an Uzi, or any other form of automatic weapon.

If anything, I'm far from an elitist on the subject, because I'm caught in this malmstrom of questions as to how far I am willing to go to protect my rights to own them. Would that include allowing someone, including myself, to own a machine gun? How about a rocket launcher? I'm afraid I'd have to opt for no ownership of guns if that was tacked on as a rider to what was allowed on a ballot.

There's where the problem sits. There are so many of us that believe in a constitutional right to own arms, and at the same time feel a line must be drawn and maintained. What keeps happening is that line is crossed, like what MadridMan said in Ohio. I certainly don't want to see the average citizen toting a gun around on their hip, or laying next to them on a car seat when I think about all the road rage and other problems that exist. I also don't want police officers to be endangered because everyone is toting.

Somewhere in the middle is an answer to the question, and I have no idea how we'll ever get there.

Wolf

Ok. So we're all bashing Michael Moore's movie right? Something that you don't have to see if you don't want to.. something that won't change your life or your children's lives. It really means nothing in the long haul.

However the outright LIES that we are told by President Bush every single day, is what is ridiculous. And his lies are destroying any ounce of respect the US has left. The rest of the world is laughing at us. And it's NOT because of Michael Moore, it's because of Bush.

Something else that's ridiculous... going to school one day, and being murdered because a CHILD was able to purchase a gun... !

Thank you Jennita, you read my mind regarding Bush's lies. You are so right.

Yeah,

I felt a lot more respect for this country when the former president was in office. Sheesh!?!?! We must have really been admired then.

Wasn't someone caught in a lie concerning a certain intern...doh! Oh yeah, revisionist history. I must be wrong.