I´ll comment the rest of the article, and Booklady's new input ASAP. This is taking too much of my free time. Thanks God I took today free at work or I wouldn't have had time for so much!

It takes me a long time to try to express myself in English, and much more, when I am trying to be accurate and not leave loose ends where I could be misinterpreted. I know I won't be able to do it but I try.

For example, Mickey, I didn't take your coments as if I were sharing only my opinions. What I meant by putting examples in italics is that, if you take 100 cases and refer to 3 of them, then these are examples , but if you refer to facts that sum a high percentage of the possible cases, then you are detailing many of the facts, not just a couple of examples.

I wrote on how the USA got most of its states, like 38 from 50 is not just an example, it's most of the story on How The Country Was Built.

Gazpacho:

Of course, the USA have the right to invade any country in the world because everybody is willing to be american, or their descendants would... :o Come on!

About Spain, Spain probably was in some aspects the boodthirsty country you are describing, although there is a Black Legend on Spanish Inquisition. I heard that Spanish Inquisition is nowadays more famous than other european Inquisitions, but that much less people died because of them than in others. For example, in France, the night of Saint Bartolomew, were killed more french protestants than in the whole history of the Inquisition.

The Black Mail of the inquisition was fomented among others by spanish dominicos monks who had teological (and economical, and estate) differences with the jesuitas, whom they wanted to blame of anything, true or no.

But Spain was imperialist. Is no more, because we're no longer invading counries and slaughtering people. Other countries are doing that now.

If you read carefully my posts, starting by the first one in this thread, I dont blame the americans on anything, because there are any kind of americans as there is any kind of spanish. I blame this american agressive imperialist government, and, in general the previous ones whose interventionist policies have made the USA nowadays a synomime of the word Imperalism.

I know americans who object this, and I know that many intelectuals, artists and scientifics have objected the war. I could never say put everybody in the same sack.

Ignacio,

Somewhere we are missing each other.

" But there are many many previous imperialisic acts and wars:

- Seizing lands to Mexico: California, ¿Nevada?, ¿Arizona?, Texas, and others."


You are presenting US annexation of states as an EXAMPLE of US imperialist policy.

You are interpreting the history. Other people could interpret the history another way.

That is what I am saying.

Hope it's clear now.

Sorry guy, I really think we are both trying to understand each other, now, but I simply can't get the point.

Of course these are examples, but so many examples is makes History is composed of. But I am not interpreting History. If annexing states that belong to other countries or nations is not imperialism, perhaps we have to re-define the term.

If I say I like ice-creams and I say I ate one on saturday, that's an example. But if I sum the 200 ice-creams I ate this year, well, this is an example, and it is much more. It is the description of How I Eat. Apply parallelism.

"If annexing states that belong to other countries or nations is not imperialism, perhaps we have to re-define the term."

You can either say the US belligerently took the land known today as California, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, and parts of Colorado and Wyoming.
OR
You could say that the US received those lands as proper indemnity from Mexico, the country that provoked war with the US.

These are both interpretations of history.

No Ignacio,

You're right. The U.S. doesn't have a right to invade any other country. But acts of war are not governed by rights. There are no laws governing war. Who would arbitrate?

When you and your ilk start being as vocal against the people that would terrorize our country, then, and only then, talk to me about what we have a right to do.

I see most of the world much more indignant about our handling of the war, than I ever did against the attacks on the U.S. in the first place. That really makes me wonder why we should worry about world opinion in the first place.

In other words, when I start seeing groups of 2 million, 2000, 200 or even 20 people out in the streets protesting terrorism, Moslem fundamentalism, etc. then I'll consider protest against the U.S. relevant.

An interesting debate, and I've tried to stay out of it. After all, I am an American, and according to some of our posters, therefore absolutely wrong no matter what I say.

But let's point out one major fact. EU is already a dinosaur facing extinctions. The very foundation of the union was to undermine the U.S. in policies and economically, by creating a united state that was larger and more powerful. All that's happened at this point is total disagreements over just about every issue, and inflation in countries like Spain that can least afford it, based on incomes. As for a military, that's a joke now isn't it?

It was pretty well expected that the U.S. would end up standing alone on the Iraqi issue. Especially since being opposed to the U.S. stand played better in public, and as an attempt to unify the EU nations. Sorry! It didn't happen. Spain and the UK ended up in the U.S. camp.

Of course Germany and France have had, and will continue to have, a distaste for all things American. The Germans specifically because we kind of kicked their asses in two wars, and the French, because they've always been pretty much unable to defend themselves, and it was up to the U.S. and the UK to pull their fat out of the fire in two world wars. Then there was their defense during the Cold War. Humiliating for both factions, wouldn't you say? Since the Cold War ended, both Germany and France have constantly been opposed to the U.S. Interestingly enough, much of EU followed them like sheep, unwilling to take a stand that wouldn't be popular with both nations.

The rebuilding of Iraq has nothing to do with the war itself. It's total ignorance and arrogance on the part of the UN and EU to sit at home pouting because they aren't getting their way. To be honest, I don't give a damn if they don't help rebuild, and I don't give a damn how they complain when they aren't "favored nations in trade" when Iraq is finally rebuilt. You make your bed then you have to lay in it, just like the U.S. has to, for prosecuting the war.

But rest assured the constant bickering and infighting in EU will tear it apart. When that happens, where will everyone turn for help? You might want to try Iran, Syria, or Morocco. Since the feeling in Europe is that we are maligning these people, they must be your buddies. Good luck! You're going to need it.

Wolf

Oh boy Wolf,

Europe trying to give the U.S. a run for our money??? I'm scared. First they would have to chuck the yoke of Socialism before they can even try.

I have close ties to the military since I once was in and am currently working at a base. We received an email today which totally discredits the media we receive here about the U.S.'s progress in Iraq.

It seems the trains are running for the first time since 1991. Schools have desks and blackboards, money is starting to be printed, and most of all, the Iraquis have an unsatiable appetite for Western progress. Hard to believe they don't want to go back to the way things were when Saddam was in power isn't it?

Wolf:
But let's point out one major fact. EU is already a dinosaur facing extinctions. The very foundation of the union was to undermine the U.S. in policies and economically, by creating a united state that was larger and more powerful. Yes, all the countries reasons are based on what the USA do or don't do. A bit egocentric, isnt't it'

As for Spain, for the first time in my life, I came to admire France, and asking for French citizenship is a faint idea that has crossed my mind a couple of times. Since I can't feel close to the nationality that birth gave me, Why not join other that I ademire? All first generation americans did, didn't they?

The rebuilding of Iraq has nothing to do with the war itself.

EXCUSE ME? What's got rebuilding to do with? Not about what the americans destroyed?

It's total ignorance and arrogance on the part of the UN and EU to sit at home pouting because they aren't getting their way. To be honest, I don't give a damn if they don't help rebuild, and I don't give a damn how they complain when they aren't "favored nations in trade" when Iraq is finally rebuilt. You make your bed then you have to lay in it, just like the U.S. has to, for prosecuting the war.

I'll pass on such adjectives as ignorance and arrogance, that I could have used on the USA much more properly, but preferred to keep cool and have maners. But look what you propose!:

-We destroy a country which has most of it's commercial relations with our commercial competitors.

-We reconstruct what we have destroyed, preferrently with other people's money.

-If we are not given help (or even if we do, considering what Spain has received, after Aznar brownnosing and Bush's promises - and I prefer it this way, no blood stained money) the commerce of this country is USA's.

This is precisely the plan from the beginning.

If you have a shop that does not want to buy or sell you products, you burn it, then you reconstruct it again (better if some fool helps), and then, the shop is now yours (included captured land it's on), and your products have a way.

Al Capone wouldn't have done better.

Gazpacho:

It seems the trains are running for the first time since 1991. Schools have desks and blackboards, money is starting to be printed, and most of all,

Funny, and ... what year does this come from? 1991, eh? Hummmmmm

the Iraquis have an unsatiable appetite for Western progress.

True, that's why we see the signs of thankfulness in the TV each day. :o

Sorry lads, as I said before, I just intervened to smoothen things (see my 1st post), but I am not going on in another debate of dozens of messages that need long meditated answers. I have a work to attend and a social life. I leave you for now.

Enjoy the debate!

The postings have become a bit biased and are going round and round.

I'm going to bit goodbye to this thread and start focusing on the ones about Spain and look forward to my move there!

Ta-ta.

Well, 1991 Ignacio,

That would be the day that the glorious forces of the U.S. liberated Kuwait. Remember Kuwait. That's the country that the saintly Saddam invaded with his peaceful defenseless army.
Thanks for all the insight from your point of view. I guess I'm never going to understand why people can take the time to demonstrate against the U.S. and not say jack about the real evil, corrupt, tyrannical nations in this world.