I think we should stop this thread, people are getting too upset. I am TOTALLY against the war though but I still like to read Wolf's posts (I could live without the FoxNews/William Safire quotes though!). What do you say MM?

Just trying to get the last word in, but I doubt my success. I admire all the sources that the anti-war crowd brings to this forum. But even if my attention-span wasn't so short I would not follow-up and read these sources since I consider 99% of the press way to biased to the left.
I'll never be able to understand the phrase "legal war"/"illegal war". Name me a war that has anything to do with legality. This was is a result of national security. It has nothing to do with the U.N. and I wish we had nothing to do with them either. They have shown their true colors and this isn't the first time they have been shown ineffectual. I question the sanity and even more importantly the morality of the people that formed it in the first place.
And to I wish we would get down to the business of war while were at it and protect American lives, not Iraqi lives. I hate to think of woman and children being killed, but more will be killed by that sadistic b___ if this war drags on.
For those few Spaniard who feel it necessary to criticize the U.S., well go ahead. I remember a fairer time when I could cut through Retiro and any other park walking to and fro through Madrid. Now there is just one way in and the same way our of any park. Things can only get worse if we don't try to do anything about terrorism right now.

jlramos, your idea of stopping/locking this thread has been on my mind for the last few days. How 'bout we get out all our comments this weekend and I'll shut it down Sunday night when I go to bed. No doubt another will pop up soon but let's resist the temptation, please.

Booklady:

Quotes like the following have been taken from previous conversations (I have left out names for obvious reasons)...

"It's leaders like him that are gaining respect from nations of the world who refuse to accept being subjected to the atrocities of terrorism, and despots, and from "peace-niks" whose concerns have never been for the rights of humans, just their own cozy little worlds."

"When I read that "millions of people" are coming out in American cities to protest against the war, I begin to ask myself what the person who has written an article is smoking, or what kind of mushrooms they put on their steak."

This is laced with, as you so eloquently put it, VITRIOLIC language.

We all know this is a passionate issue and we all should respect that. If we accept that, we should also expect that emotions will run high. As seen above, both sides are guilty. I have admitted my guilt. Now please admit to the double-standard you are applying. You claim you want an open, honest, and fair debate, but then invalidate my arguments based on irrelevant and personal attacks on me and my character by calling me a teenager (in an obviously dergatory manner). Now it's shame on you!
:p

Just so you know, I will no longer respond to this part of the conversation - if you wish to attack me as a human being, then do so. I SURRENDER. My points and concerns, like those of everyone else on this board, concern the war and only the war. Not double-standards, not right-wing rhetoric, not distractions from the subject matter of interest here.

MadridMan: thanks for being such a kind host. Sorry if passions heated up too much.

To all: Let's remember that we all share the hope that we will see a quick resolution to this matter with the least amount of life lost. I think we can all agree that regardless of how we feel we got here, what caused it, or how it will ultimately be resolved, we all want to live a peaceful and free life.

Let's not forget what we have in common.

thijs,

My reference to the "millions taking to the streets" wasn't reference to what you said, but reference to what you indicated was written by a journalist. I still ask that question, because there has not been one demonstration that was a million people in the U.S. When a journalist offers an opinion, they should be honest, not "take liberties" with facts. Obviously he didn't have time for truth, because it didn't fit too well into his agenda.

I never referred to you as being a Communist. If you look at my response it was in reference to a post that happened at just the same time as yours.

As for my "blind obedience" to the administration, rest assured, as I have indicated in a previous post, I will be at the head of the list of people campaigning against Bush. But, for now, as a Vietnam vet, who went through this hell before, and nobody stood up to help us, I don't intend to allow an overly vocal group of people who'd force their will on us by "Out-shouting us," win. Your views got their way thirty years ago, but my friend, it's not going to happen again, as long as there enough of us around who refuse to allow our soldiers to be brow beaten like someone did it to us.

You questioned my being an American. I never questioned you as being one. I may totally disagree with what you say, but I understand that it's a right we all have in the U.S. - to disagree.

It disturbs me when I see young American soldiers in Iraq asking reporters if they are going to come back home to face the hostility, and rebuff by their fellow Americans that we saw with Nam. I lived through it, and I won't sit back and allow it to happen to these young people, whose only crime is serving their nation honorably.

I'm not easily offended, so don't worry about it. Neither do I carry a grudge. Tomorrow we may be on the same page on another issue, of just as great of importance, and you cannot leave yesterday's disagreement guide you in making today's decision. That's the work of fools, who have little or no regard for facts. I certainly don't believe you're that type of person.

MadridMan,

You certainly have every right in the world to end this thread. Yes, it does get vitriolic at times, and yes, we do carry our feelings on our sleeves on a lot of issues. I guess that's what brings us together in the first place. We carry that same passion for Spain.

What makes this site one of the places we will post our opinions readily is the fact that it isn't over-run by children saying things like.... "Iraq rules!" "U.S. Marines, kick ass!" It's adult conversation, and even if we disagree, we usually are pretty good at avoiding direct insults. Yes, at times we drift, but a few well stated words by others usually brings us back on track.

You're also right that another thread will begin soon enough, and it will start all over again. Since you've been open minded on allowing us to post our views, nobody amongst us would think for a moment that you are censoring us.

The only problem with new threads, which end up on the same topic, is that they run their course carrying the same information all over again, until they reach where the last one was, and then go beyond. Issues, like the ones we've been discussing here, are of major importance, and they don't go away. New threads will rise.

In either case, thanks for allowing us to offer our views out here, in an adult manner. It's nice to have a place like this, where we can do it, and hopefully still be friends.

Wolf

Of course, Wolf! Even though we fight a lot, it does not mean we are getting a divorce. I think De Villepin or Chirac said that this week. Peace!

MadridMan,

It certainly has been a long term tradition for members of this board to have heated and passionate discussions on all types of topics. I know that you must have a list of these!

However, we continue to post because for the most part we enjoy being part of MadridMan's Message Board! The part we enjoy most is the commaraderie among the members. Over time we have in many cases bonded with each other, even though if we meet on the street we may not know what we look like.

We each have values and strong beliefs that we are willing to defend. As just happened. I do not think, I was upset until my friend was maligned. And, if I have hurt thisj feelings in my response, then please accept my apology, thisj. There are bigger issues that we need to discuss. This war!

I hope you will let us continue to discuss the issues.

Why shut this down? I am enjoying the view points of everyone here. I have my opinions and I enjoy seeing what other people from across the globe have to say about this current situation. I also find it educational. Last time I checked this was a non-Spain discussion area. I understand you are the moderator, but we aren't challenging each other to meet behind the bleachers nor are we using profane language or denegrating to petty insults. Please allow this to continue.

Unfortunatley I do not have a vacation to Madrid or Spain in the works. Therefore I do lose interest in the typical hotel and restaurant posts. This one has my interest. Is there really a need to censor? If there is a practical concern I apologize, but otherwise, c'mon, we don't need to start accusing MM of being a dictator.

Okay. Okay. Fight on. Just keep your heads about you.

Anyone else notice that it's taking longer and longer to get the POST A REPLY screen the longer this thread gets? I wonder if it's "taxing" the server. Hmmm.. Last thing we'd want would be to crash and lose all this great information.

Hmmm.. I think it's time to backup the message board. I'm taking it down for the next hour to do this.

So go on with the discussion. Just be smart. Be mature. And please be mindful of others' opinions. Thank you.

Saludos, Don MadridMan

I was wondering why the board was shut down.....

thijs,

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your comments on this thread. I agree with you, and I am amazed at the hypersensitivity of some of the posters.
Let's pray for peace, for the president, the soldiers and for the Iraqi people. History will reveal who was right.