I predict you will see a mass mitlitary operation in Iraq by US forces in late March or early April and no later then May. I hope that the Iraqis fight to the finish and do not give up why you say its not because im anti-American its because people need to fight for their country even when the leader is Saddam. And so the US doesnt make fun of this countries weaknes like they have done with the Gulf War and the Spanish American War I want to see a Iraq holding strong oposition to the Americans and I want to see the Americans fight. Well too which usually means pushing buttons! Instead of fighting your enemy face to face.

Mad For Madrid: I am glad there is an Arab in the American government. Unfortunately, I am afraid I don`t see his influence anywhere. I am sure you will agree with me the “Arab lobby” does not hold any power in the White House.
Wolf: the document you provide, without date, without signature, refers only vaguely to its sources “The German security services have at their disposal documented knowledge that...”. As long as these “German security services” don`t break their allegued silence, this strange memorandum has not the least probatory value. As to the explanations from the German govt, they are reasonable. It`s true that smallpox wouldn`t kill 30 % of Germans, as it didn`t when the disease was widely spread, 100 y. ago. Anyway, the whole story sounds like a fabrication. So German security agencies can prove that S.Hussein has smallpox, but English and Americans are unable to offer one single reliable evidence at the UN? How can that be, if UK and US planes have been flying over Irak, bombing it, infiltrating in the country and bribing everyone, for the last 12 years? Even more, Germans have evidences about Russia and N.Korea! I guess the CIA should take lessons from the Germans, they are much more efficient with a far more reduced budget.
Anyway, it is surprising that you find unacceptable the possibility that Berlin is concealing something to the public, while you don`t complain at all at the fact that the White House, along with Blair, has been blatantly lying, distorting, and fabricating, on every possible way since the crisis began. The following links deal on some of the most evident of these lies:

To begin with, the famous “incubator” incident, in 1991.
http://www.hbo.com/films/livefrombaghdad/related.shtml
http://www.io.com/~patrik/gulfwar2.htm

The Irak Dossier that British govt. Offered as a “proof”, all of it a complete sham. http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,11538,890917,00.html
Then a brief survey of the main lies and nonsense in Powell`s speech.
http://www.counterpunch.com/cockburn02152003.html

And a general sum-up of the greatest lies and contradictions of latter months
http://www.counterpunch.com/cohen02182003.html

Of course massive destruction weapons and Biological terrorism are a threat, although not in any way the “greatest threat for humanity today”. I am afraid this year more people will die due to starvation and malaria than terrorist attacks. But Bush and Co. Don`t care about all this, they are prompting panic in the US and elsewhere just to gain support for their war. Propaganda, it is all sheer propaganda.
By the way, Wolf, your last comments don`t even deserve a reply. You know it, I know it. As we say in Spain, “peor es meneallo”

Quintos writes... First: you want to see the Americans fight well too . That's a truly uninformed statement. American soldiers, marines, and airmen, have proven themselves well, I suggest that you read all about it at your local public library. Ask the librarian for some titles. If she does not know any, let me know and I will e-mail you a list.

Second: the remark about pushing buttons is also nonsensical, and ridiculous. This is the 21st century, these soldiers are from the NET generation, what do you expect?

Third, you said: Instead of fighting your enemy face to face. I lost my cousin fighting face-to-face in Viet Nam. He was 19, just lost his father in the Bay of Pigs invasion, but still wanted to fight communism in his adopted homeland. Please don't question the bravery of American soldiers until you are one yourself. My husband who is a Viet Nam veteran will tell you that fighting face to face is not for the weak hearted! He has the scars to show what face to face can do.

We all live better because of the sacrifice of these men. I encourage you to visit Arlington National Cemetary, you'll find thousands of teenagers there. They all have one thing in common, they died in combat. Face to face, or blown up, they're all dead.

So, Quintos, for the sake of those of us on this board who still mourn our dead, keep your statements in the realm of what you know. Please don't insult, even by implication, better men than you may ever know!

Carmen

Yoda " wars do not make one great" I disagree with you simply because some one is in war on the side of the US does not mean he emediatly is a great man and that he died for a great reason. Nonethe less you ever think that perhaps the Viet Cong, German, Japanese Phillipine Iraqi Afghani and Spanish soldiers that died at American hands were great men too hmmm??? I sympathies for the lose of your guissen in The War of Vietnam (because Vietnam is a country not a war). And I understand many men have dedicated themselves to the US but some times it was because of economical reasons not every war the us was involved was in the name of freedom al though alot of them were. The Vietnam War is questionable since it was only to stop the spread of Communism.

Quintos,
I was willing to discard your statement about the bravery of American servicemen as youthful oversight. But, after some thought and after reading Booklady's find post, I think you merited being called out for your earlier post.

I too am against the planned war in Iraq, for some of the reasons that have been offered here and for a few others. However, I think there is strong agreement on both sides of the debate that the planned war should cause the fewest fatalities possible. Nobody (except you) wants to see Americans or Iraqis being killed in large numbers. A protracted Iraqi defense might give you the fatalities you seem to want, but would certaintly give parents, siblings, and spouses of soldiers in both nations much hardship.

War is not a video game that plays itself out on CNN. The losses can never be replaced.

Salu2
Shawn

PS. Booklady mentioned her family's loss during the Viet-nam War. Immigrant families have often payed a high price for sharing in the American Dream, I wouldn't want your friends to pay such a terrible cost in Iraq. I am hoping for peace, but if my prayers aren't answered then may the war end quickly with little bloodshed.

Quintos with all due respect: Please think twice before posting. War is a very serious matter that has nothing to do with what we all see in movies. Has nothing of romantic, and real people get killed en mass.

I would not want to see a single person killed in the upcoming war, and even less from an allied country.

If I am correct you are living in the USA as an expatriate. Don't you think that you should have more respect for your hosts no matter your point of view about the war?

Think about the opposite situation, what would you think if an american living in Spain sayed that he would like to see spaniards die face to face?

What Spanish American War? That was a century ago!!! Who cares about that war anymore?! History is history and should remain as is, for us to understand the past and not to making the same mistakes. Think twice about it, we should be more than grateful with USA for the help they are offering us against ETA. I have no doubt that the fact that terrorism has descended in a 90% has to do something with that help (no matter that there are other circumstances as important as that).

We may be against the war, or think that, althought it is undesirable, it may solution a security problem, but that has nothing to do with a non-sense antiamericanism.

Fernando

Booklady,

I have a lot of respect for your family and it's history. Being a Viet Nam vet myself, I can feel the pain you're suffering. Your family is truly American through and through. When I go back to the Wall in DC, and visit with my friends and family whose names are there, I'll add a special prayer for your

My grandparents migrated to the U.S. just before the end of the 19th century from Germany. Two of their sons enlisted (were not drafted) in the U.S. Army, and died fighting against Germany in WWI, because it's what they believed in, just like my Grandparents. They too came here to make a new life, and be part of something good.

I lost two uncles in WWII. I lost a cousin in Korea, and I lost another cousin in Viet Nam.

As for our family, we haven't second guessed for one moment that they died for a justifiable cause.

As I type this, I have two nephews in the Gulf. One a fighter pilot on an aircraft carrier, a second an officer in the Marines, in Kuwait. I fear for them, the family fears for them, but we all know they are there for a just cause. During the Gulf War, a decade ago, there were four members of our family in harms way, in battle.

Quintos,

It's time to grow up. Your arrogance when it comes to someone else being in harms way is alarming. Obviously you don't understand just how good you have it, being here in the U.S., where you can speak your mind freely, and openly, in any forum. In another thread, it's been alluded to that Americans are welcome in Spain, but God, don't talk about poltics. That's crap! If we should feel that way, going somewhere else, why is it we protect the rights of anyone, including expatriates, to say what they want here? Simply because it's the American way. I wouldn't change it for the world.

carmenm,

I suggested you should read other sources about the internal letter that was sent in Germany. There are hundreds of sources on the Internet about it, and even your left wing zealots are up in arms about it. Even The Guardian, in the UK has written about it. I told you there were links, but I guess you're just too timid about reading the truth, unless it comes out of the mouth of someone within the Voltaire Network. As for your assessment as to the fatality rate, it's nice to know that "you personally" guarantee all those German citizens safety. I'm certain that will make their day.

The comment about the Germans using it to "prove there is biological weapons" is about the dumbest statement you've made. They didn't want this to leak out. They are against war with Iraq. Apparently you can't even distinguish the difference between the people that support your mundane duplicity to a tyrant and those who are against them. Get your ducks in a row, right now they're scattered all over the radar screen, and you look like you have no idea what you're talking about.

As for my comments about what kind of an Arab would be acceptable, rest assured, we know that none would be acceptable to you unless they were so imbued in the Palestinian cause that they were radical in their attitude even within the administration. It's called a pun. You might learn to laugh a little bit, and realize that puns are intended to offer a degree of amusement, not to get your left wing zealot dander up.

Personally, I wouldn't care if you never posted anything on this topic again, since your opinions are nonsense anyway.

Fernando,

You're absolutely right. I fear for the safety of every Spaniard in harms way, whether it was in the Gulf War, and now. That includes all the policemen who are caught up in the terrorism that's present in Spain. They are good men, and women, and don't deserve to die. I also believe the Spanish have acquitted themselves quite well as brave people over the years.

As for the Spanish-American War, rest assured most Americans do not view it as a "noble cause" on our part. It was an unfortunate thing, and should have been avoided, and would have been, had the U.S. taken the time to find out who really sunk the Maine. It was something that never should have happened between two nations, whose roots go back to the very beginning of our own nation. Had it not been for Spain, we probably never would have won independence. We owe Spain, and the Spanish people, an enormous debt, and it can never be totally repaid.

Wolf

I have been following this debate about the possible war in Irak for a few days and what has really striken me is the tone of some of the people involved. I think we should all understand this is a debate and a forum so that people can explain their opinions and ideally it should be a source of enrichment for those reading it. I find it interesting to see what other people think and on what their base their opinions, it is always enlightening and even if I have my opinions and I am not very likely to change them I would not try to convince anybody that I am in possession of the absolute truth. I, just like anybody else I guess, have an opinion on many issues and on the current one and can explain anybody why I think so but I don't see the point in presenting my opinion as if it were dogma and preach it to the rest of the world and disqualifying those who do not agree with me and moreover treat them with contempt as I have seen some members of this discussion do (at times the issue seems to have gotten to the point of becoming personal). Maybe I am too sensitive to the way in which are said, maybe too much time reading between the lines analyzing literature makes you do the same in everyday life, but it never hurts to be sensitive and respectful in the way one talks, be it with somebody who shares your views or not.

As for the issue, being discussed. I am against the war and this does not mean I am against Americans or think Sadam is a saint, which is very far from being remotely close to the truth. From reading the postings in this forum I have gotten the impression that the moment one says one is against the war, one automatically becomes against the US and at least, it is not my case. I know so many Americans who are against the war who are as patriotic as anybody can be, they just dont agree with the reasons given for the war and believe in a peaceful way to solve the conflict. I don't think it is a sin not to share the opinions of one's government.

I am not an expert in international relations or politics, but what I meant to say in this posting is that people should try to express their opinion in a respectful way and not be dogmatic. Bear in mind that the fact that somebody thinks differently does not make him or her your enemy just in the same way that somebody who does not like the idea of the war is not an anti-American terrorist.

Here it is a honest, brave speech. It was adressed recently in the US senate, and the author was the senator for West Virginia:

http://www.bahamasuncensored.com/byrd_robert.html

They have been warned, now. Wise words have been said. Furtherly, the hawks can`t even pledge ignorance about the consequences of their madness.
Or will they say that the senator for West Virginia is an un-american-red-terrorist?

Jonsoniana, Wolf:
You are both right. I agree with Jonsoniana that all this has all gone too far, and has become personal for some people. I am not interested in a personal quarrel through the web, I just wanted to learn something, and offer my view on this issue. And of course, Wolf, I agree with you: it would be a waste of time just trying to keep a civilized debate with you.
Go ahead, the board is all yours: bless whoever is right, condemn whoever is an evil red, un-American, feeble ungrateful European.

I think you guys took my post in the wrong way what I meant by both sides fighting well was not a huge battle or death what I meant was a fight with honor instead of cowardly shooting of chemicals and bombing what I also meant by fighting well is by following the rules of war such as not shotting medics and caring for the wounded and not leaving comrades behind and of course not killing civilians. I didnt mean all out war. Just a fair some what civil war with common rules if we are going to have a war with Iraq I hope the enemy and the US follow the rules of war and honor. What I meant by the Iraqi fighting well is that I like to see people fight for their country surrendering is not my thing for example if the US was attacked by say Russia wouldnt you like to see our military put up a stiff fight of course you would. Now in Iraq those soldiers are fighting for their country and even though it is evil they are still soldiers just like the Americans and they both know they can die in the war. If their has to be a war because of Bushes arrogance let their be war but lets keep the war civil and with honor now I understand the Americans are going to use bombs and so are the Iraqis but bombs dont make great men thats why I find bombs dishonorable but necesary for modern warfare. And please dont become angered and call me an expatriate please im not trying to offend any one please just correct or post that you disagree im not trying to be a insensitive person. I apologize to

I apologize to booklady, if my post had the appeal of being very insensitive to human life but thats war and my country is going to be in one real soon so pardon me.Also please do not talk to me about meeting great soldiers my Grand Father served in WW2 Pacific theater as well as my great uncle fought in WW2 European theater my dad was also almost recruited to Vietnam War and my grand father died in the Spanish Civil War.

Fernando, if an American in Spain said he would like to see Spaniards fight face to face and with honor in an up coming war.Spain had to be involved in I would not be angered. Although I wouldnt like to see that happen.