LiM,

I hope you realize that things are "just a little bit more complex" than you seem to think. Please, listen to your wife on this one .
(BTW, how's LiM jr.?)

Fernando,

GREAT POST, BRAVO!

I agree that sadly, this is not going to be the solution for this situation, I'm sure they'll be some other political organization under some other name (on the lines of "Gora ETA"='Viva ETA'=Long live ETA) (Gee, it's repulsive just to write that!) soon enough; however and I guess this is the feeling of the majority of Spaniards, or at least mine, it was about time SOMETHING, some kind of taugh action was taken. The fact that there are people(HB) who honour the ETA members that are accidently killed when they are setting up bombs to kill innocent people, and whose salary (for not even showing up in congress) is being paid with my (and everyone else's, including the ETA victim's relatives and friends) tax money, is just too much, and I seriously doubt that it would be allowed to happen in any other country.

Let's just hope this new development doesn't imply too much bloodshed during the next days....

First off, I’d like to say that I fully agree with Aznar that Batasuna is "basura". Batasuna is horrible, but not necessarily illegal. I am living in Bilbao and can see a side of this conflict that I think you should see.

1.There are some people here that see what is happening to Batasuna and think that Spain is escalating its efforts against the Basque Country and think that they should escalate their efforts against Spain (i.e. become more radical). I have heard one person here say “This is war now”.
2.The issue of illegalization has given Batasuna something new to talk about, taking the attention off of its failure to condemn the murder of a 6 year old child. Illegalization will just give ETA another reason to call the Spanish government “fascist” and attract new recruits.
3.Other groups were outlawed and new groups have popped up to take their place. By letting the group continue, you at least have your enemies consolidated and can control them to some degree.

Also, I think that the Batasuna senators don’t attend any sessions because they are abstaining from the process in protest.

Few people here thing that this will change anything, if anything it might just provoke more violence. It might feel good to do now, this but it is important to consider the long term effects of this process.

This can be an emotional subject and I think that if everyone keeps their cool we can have an interesting, respectful discussion of it.

Roe,

Just a couple of comments:

-"Spain" would NEVER try to do anything against, or to harm in any way the Basque Country, because the Basque Country IS, at least for now, PART of Spain. It's just a matter of the Spanish Gvt. trying to do what they can (and what an easy task that is! ) to confront ETA and its supporters.
-Don't feel sorry for HB's lack of condemnation of the child assasination not getting enough attention; believe me, when they have never condemned any of the almost 4.000 terrorist acts that have taken place over 30 years, that's not such a big deal anymore....
-About the senators, it seems they just don't attend the sessions because they don't consider themselves Spanish, which is why I think THEY SHOULDN'T BE THERE, AND getting paid by all of us in the first place! (and believe me, the money is the least of my concerns)

There must be a reason for the result to be like this, don't you all think?:

295 votes in favor
10 votes against
29 abstention

(Take into consideration the fear factor)

P.S.: My third last name, Arrondo, is Navarre-Basque, I learned that only a few years ago and couldn't be prouder to have some Basque blood in me (unlike many stupid 'etarras' ). There's NOTHING against those great people, there's just a lot of sympathy, and when they can't see that in Bilbao, I'm deeply saddened by it, but that's only proof of all the manipulation going on.

"1.There are some people here that see what is happening to Batasuna and think that Spain is escalating its efforts against the Basque Country and think that they should escalate their efforts against Spain (i.e. become more radical). I have heard one person here say “This is war now”."

Sadly, it has been war for many years and many people have died.

The following are some invaluable points:
It's time for the anti-ETA Basque people TO STAND UP AND FIGHT AGAINST ETA AND ALL OF ITS MANIFISTATIONS!
The ordinary Basque PEOPLE should protect the judges and politicians and journalists in the Basque country!
Basque business owners should NEVER pay any money for "protection" to ETA!
All Basque people in the Basque educational system should celebrate and honor not only their Basque heritage but also their SPANISH NATIONALITY!

It has been a war for many years and the Basque people must fight on the side of SPAIN!

I agree with Russ & JJP, as the only viable solution looks to be via dialogue.

Unfortunately, since Aznar and the rest of PP feels that everyone in the HB is a terrorist, we have had no dialogue in those "25 years" that Fernando mentioned. I think Felipe was the last presidente del gobi to suggest dialogue. I may be a little hazy on that, but I believe that was something he tried during his presidency.

Would you have the "huevos" if your family was at risk and being threatened? Very few of us would, and the rest are divided into two groups: Those who can afford personal protection and those who cannot. This is something that almost nobody on the board is qualified to comment on, as the overwhelming majority of us are not approached by ETA to pay the revolutionary tax, and our families are not in immediate danger. It's easy to armchair quarterback this one, but it's a little more complex than "just say NO", Nancy.

It's also quite evident that some of the same families that want to see an end to the violence have family members involved in the root of the problem. I've spoken to grandmothers who mourn for their "living", those who are "fichados" in ETA, but would do anything to keep them alive except for turning them in.

But the majority of Basques in those diputados' districts voted them in. Perhaps the solution lies in education, not in illegalization of a democratic process. Those who voted "followed the rules".

We're going to need a time frame there, as I can think of a half-dozen instances in just this past century where "Spain" HAS done "anything" to "harm in any way the Basque Country". It's all a question of perspective. By the same token, you'd be a fool to think that ETA hasn't ever done anything to harm "Spain". It doesn't suprise me that the four or so HB seats sit empty at the cámara, as those Basques are most likely, and this is pure speculation based on observation of popular opinion, looked at in much the same way a Gypsy is viewed on a subway...with suspicion and disdain.

And Toddy: Why?

CaliBasco [Who is doing his best to alienate everyone possible...did I mention how much I hate hominids?] Good grief this is a long post...please, don't read it. Your eyes may glaze over...

Someone said "in a matter which has two possible solutions, the most probably right is the most simple to explain".

Here the most simple is not to think that Batasuna is fighting against an opressive state, but that they are simply a bunch of pro-terrorists without brain.

We can argue if the ilegalization will make things worse... worse than killing a girl of 6 years-old? ETA will continue to kill, but at least Batasuna will not be there as a legal political party to laugh at the face (literally) of the victim's families. A democratic country must use whatever legal means to defend itself from those who want to destroy it.

Cali, for me it would be an error to think of this issue as a Spain vs Basque Country. Let me remember you that 11 (7 PP, 4 PSOE) of the 19 (add 7 for PNV and 1 for EA) basque parlamentaries have voted for the ilegalization of Batasuna.

You have said that the solution is education and I fully agree with it, but you have also said that dialogue was necessary. It is always helpful to solve matters talking, but with ETA or Batasuna is impossible.

After ETA killed Miguel Angel Blanco the 18th of July of 1997 the social pressure against ETA and Batasuna was very hard, and the 4 most active comandos of ETA were imprisoned and deactivated. ETA declared a truce (which lasted two years). Then your beloved Aznar (of whom you said he didn't offered dialogue ) started secret talikings with ETA highest rankings. After that was unveiled, it was known that during the truce, and when ETA was making the show that they were wanting to dialogue, at that same time they were training and activating new comandos, garning information of potential new objectives, making extorsion to get money, and buying new weapons. When they had again active terrorist cells, they broke the truce (without reason) and started again to kill.

That is the kind of dialogue ETA wants. Batasuna has never make any effort, any gesture to find a solution to the terrorism but continue to say that "ETA was an expression of the basque conflict".

France ilegalized Iparretarrak (french equivalent to Batasuna) in 1987.

ETA has responded today to the ilegalization of Batasuna: it has put a bomb in Tolosa (no injured).

And to end, today a representative of the american government has supported the ilegalization of Batasuna as it has links with the terrorist bands. Remember that Batasuna is considered a terrorist group by the american authorities.

Fernando

Franco has been dead for 27 years now, will EVERYONE PLEASE GET OVER IT ALREADY?!!! Isn't it about time? It's ridiculous.

I'm honestly very curious Cali, do you come to Spain often?, do you spend time in the Pais Vasco when you do come visit? I ask this because a few times already the way in which you make jokes, or just mantain a humorous tone while discussing ETA really strikes me as odd, considering two things: I've vacationed in Zarauz for ten years and have NEVER found Basque people even DARE to talk about the terrorist issue in public (let alone joke about it, unthinkable!), not even at Jose Mª Alkorta's funeral in 2002, our last summer in Zarauz, which I attended because he was our appartment building neighbor. Well, to be exact, during Julio Iglesias Zamora's kidnapping, people started wearing blue ribbons to show their support for him, in Zarauz!, I remember we could not believe it (still no words though). Number two: I would never even dream about making fun in any way about September 11th.
This being said, in case you are wondering, I believe I'm considered to have a very healthy sense of humour but there are just limits to certain things....

And yes, it's been positively proven that during Felipe Gonzalez's govt. the PSOE people did try talking to the bastards....

Fernando, I just read your post, and you're right, the famous truce WAS INDEED a joke related to ETA after all....

One last thing, today's bomb didn't cause any damage because its 'temporizador' failed so they were able to get everybody out of the area and proceed to deactivate it.

The Basque people are Spaniards and Spaniards should help Spaniards.

The many Basque parades against ETA after each death are nothing more than a little symbol. What they need to do if they really are against violence is FIGHT ETA!

The great Basque culture should have nothing to do with ETA. It should not be allowed to brainwash the people,especially the youth, to support ETA.

I also think PP should give some carrot along with a very strong stick!

Talk is cheap AND costing lives!

I´ll keep the post brief.

ETA=Batasuna

The same killers who start off planting car-bombs, later "graduate" into the polticians under the banner of Batasuna. Just like the Amrerican Mafia, you start out by "rubbing out enemies" of the family and with the passage of time you assend into a "Dapper Don" with expensive Italian suits with a "legitimate" construction business. In ETA you start by planting a few car-bombs, then once your ruthless reputation has been established you begin your legal "political carrer".

In the United States we have laws against money laundering by the mafia. Spain has now finaly established a law against ETA=Batasuna. I congratulate Spain for their resolve in confronting the ETA cancer, the fight against the baby-killers will be continue to be every bit as tough as America´s was against the mafia, but at least now the thugs can´t cloak themselves as legitimate politicians. The FBI has closed down countless mafia businesses, I am glad to see that Spain has put the locks on the Batasuna racket.

Summary
ETA=Batasuna

I couldn't agree more with what Fernando and Pim have said.
Kicking Batasuna/HB/EH out of the democratic political scene won't solve the ETA problem but, at least, they won't continue receiving public money. That was insulting! The same way it was insulting when they appointed the ETA killer Josu Ternera for the "Human Rights comission" or when they used a council place to "honour" 4 ETA members accidentally killed in a car-bomb on their way to place it in another "target". Honoring martyrs...