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#62718 - 09/02/02 06:15 AM Re: Batasuna
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Watch this in the embassy of the USA in Spain ( www.embusa.es ). It is something said by the State Department Spokesman of the USA Richard Boucher:

"The United States strongly supports Spain's efforts to fight ETA terrorism. As in any sovereign democracy, Spanish elected officials and judicial authorities have the legitimate right and responsibility to take action against terrorist organizations. It is our understanding that these actions are not directed at curtailing legitimate political activity or free speech, but rather are based upon Batasuna's alleged links to the ETA terrorist group."

Everytime I see on the media news the support of the USA government on the fight against ETA I thank God for it. If not for this support, the information intel exchange, and the political support, it would be harder for us to erradicate the terrorism.

Thanks USA! smile

Fernando

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#62719 - 09/02/02 02:59 PM Re: Batasuna
Booklady Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
Hola Fernando,

Thanks for sharing the information about the U.S. position regarding ETA. I too am glad that the countries are working together to eradicate the terrorist activities of groups like ETA. After 9/11 there has been an awakening here in the US at the horror of terrorism. The anxiety, the frustration, the agnst, and horror that Europeans have had to deal with for many years are now part of our cosmology.

Until 9/11 whenever we heard of a terrorist act elsewhere it did not have the same impact as it does now. Now, our hearts reach out to the families and friends of the victims the same way that our hearts were touched by the loss of our loved ones. Anger fills our hearts towards the evildoers that deny a child her life. There's no longer any excuse for terrorism.
_________________________
The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.
--St. Augustine (354-430)

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#62720 - 09/03/02 07:43 PM Re: Batasuna
toddy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/00
Posts: 303
Loc: USA
Fernando,
Mi amigo de España,
de nada
you are TOTALLY welcome.
I hope that the US and Spain can continue to work together to abolish any and all of the terrorists in the world and their cowardly evil activities!

United We Stand!

toddy,
de USA smile

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#62721 - 09/14/02 05:56 PM Re: Batasuna
Cristobo Carrín Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 136
Loc: Asturias
I admit I haven`t read all the posts on this topic, I am sending this just to reply the original one. Mostly I agree with it; I think to outlaw a political party is not the answer. If ETA and Batasuna are the same, well then prove it and imprison them. Why was it necessary to make a new law, which outlines what kind of ideas are compulsory? (say, "if you don`t claim loud and clear that you are against ETA, you get behind the bars"). I have heard one thousand times that Batasuna often sits terrorists in city councils and the Basque parlament; they supposedly send money to support ETA, and so on and on...then why can`t Spanish authorities lock them unless they make a SPECIAL law just against this political party?
This is crazy, now it is illegal just to stay silent when the others condemn terrorism. It is ridiculours. Even demonstrations against the new law are banned! Where is free speech, then? You can read a great essay on this (in Spanish) at

http://www.lanuevaespana.es/periodico25agosto/PG033TRI252.htm

But now...why should the first post-sender include that hint about a "young democracy" which still holds certain "fascist trends"? Is Spain such a "young" democracy? The Franco era was only possible because the UK and the Americans refused to help the II Republic, both before and after the WWII. The democratic tradition of Spain doesn`t start in 1978, but in 1520, when the "Comuneros" defied the Habsburg tyrant. As to the English-speaking world, their "democratic" tradition is nothing to write home about (I am not trying to be respectless, really; just sincere). The Bloody Sunday was not much better than any Franquist massacre. And, as far as the perils of "Free-Speech cuts", and fascist involution, there is a WONDERFUL essay (in English) available at http://www.rmbowman.com/ssn/terror3.htm
PS-If you remember me, from the "Spanish nationalism" thread, you will notice that I am not exactly a Spanish chauvinist. But really, I don`t see why should I accept humbly that the US, or the Britons, or anyone, claim that they can teach lessons to others upon their "democratic tradition". Please!!! the days of the Empire are (happyly) gone. We are all equals, ain`t we?

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#62722 - 09/15/02 06:42 PM Re: Batasuna
toddy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/00
Posts: 303
Loc: USA
Quote:
The Franco era was only possible because the UK and the Americans refused to help the II Republic, both before and after the WWII.
Hmmmmm, I know of some DEAD Lincoln Brigade Americans who could argue against this post much better than I. eek

(I think there is a memorial in La Mancha for those Americans who refused to help) mad

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#62723 - 09/16/02 01:05 AM Re: Batasuna
Roe Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/01
Posts: 176
Loc: california
There were some Americans that fought in the Spanish Civil War, but they acted as private individuals. The American government was against them and threatened those that went to Spain to fight for the Republic.

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#62724 - 09/16/02 02:05 AM Re: Batasuna
CaliBasco Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 1495
Loc: Idaho
Thank you Roe for adding in that important bit about private, individual support of a few Americans. Sometimes people get the wrong impression that since Hemingway and others wrote about their experiences in the "brigadas" that their practices were accepted by the government. It is evident that the US chose to ignore the problem instead of involving itself in a solution.

I agree with Cristobo, especially when he asks "where's the free speech?" Outlawing Batasuna, while sexy, en vogue and on paper looking like the right thing to do post 11-S, is not the answer, and is actually a step backwards for Spain's version of democracy.

Remember that, even though public school teachers sign affadavits prior to employment barring them from teaching communism in public schools, they can still be members of the Communist Party in this country "after hours" when the instruction day is done. That's because, even though we may not agree with communism, McCarthyism is dead and free speech lives in the land of the truly free.
_________________________
Ongi etorri!

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#62725 - 09/16/02 02:06 AM Re: Batasuna
CaliBasco Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 1495
Loc: Idaho
Duplicate Post...damn dial-up connections! wink
_________________________
Ongi etorri!

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#62726 - 09/16/02 04:46 AM Re: Batasuna
Cristobo Carrín Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 136
Loc: Asturias
I don`t like to point out to others what is wrong, like if I were perfect or lived in a perfect world (I think Aznar and most of Spanish political an judicial system stinks). However, Calibasco, I guess you will agree that something goes actually wrong, lately in the US. It is obvious that the first modern revolution who prevailed (after Cromwell) it was the American one, that modern idea of liberty is based upon American models, and so on...but modern America, I think, is going back in many aspects, as far as human rights are concerned. There are too many religious zealots running key sectors of government, too much support for Israeli biggots, too much money for the defense budget. Too much "patriotism" in the "patriotic act". Too many prisioners in Guantanamo. In my opinion, our dear puppet Aznar only dares to illegalize Batasuna because the "environment" is suitable for that. He dares because the US government appears to believe anything is OK in order to fight terrorism.

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#62727 - 09/16/02 05:53 AM Re: Batasuna
Wolf Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 1235
Loc: Rockford, IL/Milton, WI, USA
The Spanish Republic's only true support came from Josef Stalin and the Russian Communists. The International Brigades that supported the Republic were made up of people around the world, and included two battalions, the Washingtons & the Lincolns, from the US. By-and-large, the members of the brigades were either Communists (including the US participants) or Anarchists. On the other hand, Franco was supported by the might of Nazi Germany, and Fascist Italy.

Stalin raped the Republic, by insisting that the Spanish gold reserve be transferred to Moscow, and in turn - he would send weapons & planes. He also sent a few pilots to man the antiquated pieces of crap they were giving to the Republic.

The US "insisted" that Great Britain & France remain neutral. There were a couple of reasons. One not withstanding was the fact that the US considered the Communist threat worse than that of the Nazis. It was hoped, quietly, that the Nazis would attack Russia and destroy the Communist government. There was another problem the US faced. It was rebellion within. Retired Marine Corps General Smedley Butler was basically asked to overthrow the US government just a few years earlier. The issue was supported by bankers, industrialists, and notables such as Charles Lindbergh. A new "caretaker" government would be formed. It would be based on the principles of Fascism. Here's one link, but there's a multitude of sources of info related to this in most well kept libraries in the US. http://www.chrononhotonthologos.com/lawnotes/smedley.htm

In 1998, Spain welcomed the members of the International Brigades back to Spain, treated them with the greatest respect, and even offered citizenship to those who fought. It was a touching moment for everyone. The people of Spain, and the many villages where these men had trained, and died, opened their doors to them, and made them feel like they were part of Spain, and always would be.

A surprising side note, that the vast majority of the US participants were Jewish. Ironic considering they had been expelled from Spain centuries earlier.

There are literally dozens of books out there, written by Brigidistas. The majority are worth reading. I have several in my library, and have made a point to read as many more as I could from the libraries.

As for Hemingway, he was in Spain as a journalist, not as a soldier/fighter. In fact, he'd cruise around in a touring car, and view battles from a distance. His stay in Madrid was less than admirable. While Franco's army lay siege to the city, and people were starving, Hemingway lived like a king, the finest food and booze delivered to him. His "parties" were the envy of the entire press corps, and an invitation to one of his nightly sessions where he'd hold court meant a full belly, and a toasty warm feeling because he had the corner on the booze available. Some journalists claimed that Hemingway's dispatches should have been their own. Much of what he reported on, and gleaned for his manuscript, For Whom The Bell Tolls, came from other journalists, who'd seen first hand the real carnage of what was happening.

Wolf

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