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#61889 - 04/05/02 07:47 PM why speak english
Anonymous
Unregistered


laugh laugh laugh good friends of mine have recently enjoyed madrid. However they will not go again due to lack of english being spoken.Do people(especially english) expect their language to be spoken everywhere? I think not!
Spanish people will always help you with correct words etc. Yes i do speak from experience.At least trying to learn the local language will get you much further than any phrasebook!

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#61890 - 04/06/02 12:40 AM Re: why speak english
wyndyl Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 148
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Spanish the most spoken language in the world? I know there are differences in the language from Castillian to South American, even from Mexican Spanish, etc....

I know I'd be more comfortable if the country I was visiting had the same language, but that would limit me to English speaking nations...that would be too limiting... frown Where's the fun in that? wink

Embarrassing at times, I'm quite sure, but you'll have stories to tell family and friends later :p

I speak another language other than English...unfortunately frown not too much Spanish..but I'm learning...slowly...

We can't be presumptuous and expect everyone in the world to know English rolleyes

Anyway, that's my two cents worth.
wyndyl

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#61891 - 04/06/02 01:26 AM Re: why speak english
LostInMadrid Offline
Member

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 92
Loc: Madrid, Spain
It depends on exactly how you count people and whether you're talking native or not, but usually Spanish is about #3 on the list after Mandarin (Chinese) and English. Hindi is also a contender for the top 3...

Here's a a couple of the varied lists there are out on the internet:
http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774735.html

-Russ

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#61892 - 04/06/02 01:43 AM Re: why speak english
wyndyl Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 148
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Hey, Russ

Thanks for the info...I guess with China's population, including Taiwan's, I suppose Chinese would be spoken more in the world... wink

I guess what I wanted to point out was that--we all need to keep our minds open about other languages (and cultures, laugh )

Wyndy smile

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#61893 - 04/06/02 04:27 PM Re: why speak english
Anonymous
Unregistered


laugh Wyndyl!
In england(as im sure is the same as everywhere else)we have a lot of chinese restaurants. My dad speaks very good chinese and quite often after we have finished eating and paid the bill etc.He will speak to them in their own language.Many a time as small children my sisters and i would be stiffling laughter as our father would speak to the staff etc. that he agreed that eg.table 4 were rude pigs as they had previously pointed out in cantonese to each other!The look on their faces was one of absolute horror as they tried to recall what they had said about our table.Happy days indeed!

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#61894 - 04/06/02 04:38 PM Re: why speak english
taravb Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 736
Loc: Ames, Iowa, USA
Yeah, spike1, it's a good lesson from your experience--one can't ever assume that people don't speak the language! I have occasionally heard English-speaking tourists in Spain say insensitive or rude things in English, assuming they won't be understood. I guess my dad's saying, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" is good counsel in any language!!

smile

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#61895 - 04/06/02 09:49 PM Re: why speak english
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Taravb, how true it is!

I've been insulted twice in english: once in Ireland and once in my own country. Both times making reference to my mother...

The first time a man insulted my group (all spaniards) while we were studying english in Ireland (you don't have to be too smart to guess we would understand...). What we did? A friend of me take the man as if he was his best friend, and with the nicest smile in his lips he said to the man: -"Me cago en tu puta madre" smile

The second time I was insulted by a drunken english in the Costa del Sol. What I did? I smiled, I called him "paleto" and my group of friends turned around and get out of the scene laughing... he was still trying to guess what I had called him...

25% of spaniards understand english to a point, and this percentage rises a lot on youngsters. Don't risk yourself saying something embarrasing wink

By the way, all my school class mates, all my close friends, my parents, my cousins, my brothers and almost all my friends speak english...

Fernando

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#61896 - 04/07/02 09:39 AM Re: why speak english
Lizziee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 58
Loc: Scotland
Sadly, the English are very lazy about speaking other people's languages - all to do with previous empires etc and is an attitude many of us hate.

However, my sister (who speaks a little French) was determined to try Spanish when on holiday recently but couldn't remember how to ask for five beers (no, I'm not sure how many beers she'd had previously), so she asked for dos y dos y uno mas! At least she tried!!

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#61897 - 04/07/02 11:39 AM Re: why speak english
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lizziee thats improvisation took to a completely new level,seriously though,you are right about it being typical of the english(dont know about scots,my dad is scots and he believes that we should make every effort to speak other languages.)Although iam not exactly multi lingual i find it great fun learning and often very funny when trying to find a right word or context.I remember when i was in Pego and had split my only pair of trousers.I was aware of a rather cool (but quite pleasant actually!)draught coming from a strange place.Whilst glancing at a shop doorway from over my shoulder i saw the split and realised what had happened.Damn,wouldnt you know that i was wearing bright red underpants too!(Fate,i swear it!)so iam now looking like an escaped baboon,complete with(pity me)grin.Eventually,i found a shop which looked as though it may stock cotton etc.Shuffled my way in laugh laugh laugh muttered "hola" and proceeded to do an excellent impersonation of Lionel Blair on steroids.It was like a bizarre game of charades,with me pretending to sew an imaginary cloth with an imaginary needle,then pointing to my backside.A small crowd of spaniards had by now gathered,at this point you could have fried an egg on my face.Suddenly the shopkeeper turned away,(thank god,i thought)then back again,smiled knowingly and gave me a small box with ARRETT wrote on the side(very popular tablet to stop diahorrea.)

I learnt spanish Quite soon after!

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#61898 - 04/07/02 04:20 PM Re: why speak english
taravb Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 736
Loc: Ames, Iowa, USA
Spike1, your story is SO FUNNY!!! smile

And I have to mention that I have also been insulted "behind my back" by Spanish-speakers in Spain--AND I've been propositioned (I didn't take him up on it, but I made it clear I understood his request!!!). rolleyes

The world's so small now, it seems wherever you are, you can assume SOMEONE's bilingual!

We have two Deaf students in our department at the University, and they have joked that, with how quickly all of us hearing people are learning sign language, they won't be able to talk about us anymore!!

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#61899 - 04/07/02 05:10 PM Re: why speak english
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Education frees people smile

And yes, I have seen spaniards talking about english, irish, germans, etc at their face, in spanish, laughing at them. Stupid people can be find everywhere wink

Fernando

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#61900 - 04/07/02 05:54 PM Re: why speak english
taravb Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 736
Loc: Ames, Iowa, USA
You're right about that, Fernando (both things--that education is freedom and that, sadly, there are stupid/insensitive people everywhere)! One of the Deaf friends I mentioned above speaks 9 or 10 languages, including at least 2 signed ones. She is studying Swedish, to add to her collection of languages! She can read lips in most languages (German is hard) and speaks without an accent in at least three languages (including English, Italian, and German). I am in TOTAL AWE of her--she has spent her life (even before she became deaf at 14) learning languages and is such an inspiration! I only speak English and marginal Spanish--and a bit of American Sign Language and Italian--and a few dirty words in French. So I have far to go to catch up!

I wish our American educational system did a better job of language instruction. We are required to study languages in most school systems, but we don't have to really LEARN them. I studied Spanish for about 5 years (and Latin for 2) before I went to Spain, and I was barely able to speak when I arrived. I am glad our schools try, but until it's embraced as valuable by our policymakers and the society as a whole, it's not likely to result in fluency in any foreign language. Of course, many would say that graduates of our educational system aren't very fluent in English, either! rolleyes

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#61901 - 04/07/02 06:06 PM Re: why speak english
Anonymous
Unregistered


Taravb and fernando,i couldnt agree more,i quite often come across deaf people(due to my job)and feel stupid/embarrased/lazy that i cant"sign".Fernando is correct about"education frees".
ps.For anyone who doesnt know Lionel Blair is a famous (english) chap who communicates excellently without speaking. laugh

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#61902 - 04/07/02 06:34 PM Re: why speak english
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
What a friend taravb! I wish I had such incredible ones...

Languages are sooooo important... You may not realise that english is the main language, and that knowing another one or two languages is also very important (I think spanish is going to be a very important language for americans, but also the rest of the world).

I obviously speak spanish, and my parents sent me to a bilingual school so I could learn english since I was 3 years-old. My english is not perfect but I can defend myself wink

But now is important to speak also another language in Spain if you want to get a good job (most of the people of my age speak english or understand it). I speak very basic german and french smile

You don't realise how necessary they are until you travel outside your country...

Fernando

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#61903 - 04/07/02 06:36 PM Re: why speak english
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Lionel Blair... mmm I think I have hear about him, but I don't remember who is he... (excuses wink ). May you talk a bit more about him spike1?

Fernando

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#61904 - 04/07/02 06:41 PM Re: why speak english
Jo-Anne Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 798
Loc: Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, Eng...
Fernando (you have to remember that Spike sometimes lives on an alternative planet)

Lionel Blair was on a programme called 'Give us a Clue' - is that right Spike? A game of charades.

Mind you, I thought at first that Spike meant that Lionel communicated through his dancing prowess!!! laugh wink laugh

Jo

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#61905 - 04/07/02 07:15 PM Re: why speak english
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Guys,(especially Fernando)
Maybe you rememember (see previous post, tut tut) that spike is on a different planet but at least he can spell words correctly (hee hee). Lionel Blair is a multi-talented dancer/singer/actor. However, his hair style is remembered by most people. In the late 1980's he was well known for his outstanding performances in the popular tv show "Give us a Clue" starring alongside Una Stubbs, his female opponent in a quick witted game of Charades, featuring famous actors-to act out the names of films/books and tv hits etc, without speaking a word. Although primarily known for his wonderful dancing, this is mainly by the older generation. Hope this helps you Fernando.

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#61906 - 04/08/02 06:14 AM Re: why speak english
El Boqueron Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/00
Posts: 421
Loc: UK
To be honest, the British in Spain are a bit of an embarrassment, even before we open our mouths and ask to see "el menyu engleis". You can spot us a mile off. We don't dress well, we can't dance, we have bad hair, we think sports wear is appropriate in all contexts, and we don't know how to drink. In short, the Spanish have "gracia" and we don't (we don't really even have a word for it!). The British go abroad basically to escape the British weather (who can blame us!), and the unfortunate fact that "abroad" is already populated with people who speak and act differently is something to be ignored or avoided (courtesy of the tour operator).

That said (phew!), some of the best writers on Spain have been British - Gerald Brenan, Ian Gibson, Laurie Lee, George Orwell etc.

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#61907 - 04/08/02 04:53 PM Re: why speak english
ChrisS Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 35
Loc: EE.UU.
To El Bordenquen,

I, as an american, dont feel that there is anything inherently wrong with expressing one's own culture in a foreign one. The only thing that matters is that you are either repectful of the people and culture or try to adapt to it. You can wear british styles(all fashion being subjective, although the spanish women dress nice--all the guys wear the same dark blue or tan outfit with some surf label attached) just dont be alarmed if people stare. I think people forget how homogenous the spanish culture is. Many do and act the exact same way as their neigbor. But above all, the thing that gives foreigners the bad rep is the way we drink and get rowdy. Losing ones self control in spain is seen as shameful by the people. So to all other foreign travellers(this group excluded I know you guys love more things than sangria and bullfights) dont be that beligerant (I'll say american) because I've seen it too many times.

Word,

Chris
_________________________
Puedes imaginarme tumbado abajo de un arbol?

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#61908 - 04/08/02 05:21 PM Re: why speak english
Lizziee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 58
Loc: Scotland
When I was in Nerja they just thought the drunk Essex girl at the other end of the bar was highly funny - which she was!!

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#61909 - 04/11/02 03:06 PM Re: why speak english
Nuria Offline
Member

Registered: 07/04/00
Posts: 263
Loc: NJ, USA
A couple of friends of mine went to my wedding to Spain and hated my country so bad that it hurt my feelings... they ate at McDonnals EVERY SINGLE DAY eek , they hated Spaniards kissing them, they hated the coffee, the people, the language, they didn't understand why the hell ALL Spaniards don't speak English rolleyes ... it was embarrasing for everybody else! :o I think that kind of people should stay where they feel comfortable, otherwise they are miserable and make everybody miserable.
Nuria

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#61910 - 04/11/02 03:11 PM Re: why speak english
MadridMan Offline


Executive Member

Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 9080
Loc: Madrid, Spain (was Columbus, O...
Nuria, pay no attention to them. It seems they fill the "Ugly American" stereotype and don't know what they should be appreciating. rolleyes
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#61911 - 04/11/02 04:23 PM Re: why speak english
Nuria Offline
Member

Registered: 07/04/00
Posts: 263
Loc: NJ, USA
There are hundreds of "NON UGLY AMERICANS" in this forum and millions out there... who cares if 2 Americans are "ugly"? laugh
And let's face it, when we went out we got to eat their share of jamon and tortilla wink

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#61912 - 04/11/02 05:56 PM Re: why speak english
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
That is something I have come to apreciate...

It is not that I thought all americans filled the stereotype yourselves hate, it is that really they are the exception...

Fernando

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#61913 - 04/11/02 06:45 PM Re: why speak english
Anonymous
Unregistered


The american people who ive met in Spain and on the messageboard have,(with 1 or 2 exceptions) been fun,intelligent and well travelled people.

One particular couple, (ron from Colarado) have become really good friends with us.

Iam sure the positive side of well travelled americans that i have seen is typical of most USA citizens which is why i have offered my friends in US to stay many times.

Spain iam sure has had the benefit of US visitors and i feel sure that the rest of the UK would benefit from your warm friendly,positive attitude to life.

Nuria, I (and iam sure everyone else in uk) love the custom of (kissing) the Spanish.
People are so friendly in spain its a real delight to meet such lovely people i love spain and all its traditions
Spike laugh laugh

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#61914 - 04/11/02 09:09 PM Re: why speak english
taravb Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 736
Loc: Ames, Iowa, USA
I do think it takes only a few unpleasant people to make someone have negative thoughts about a group...which is why I always try to be as kind and friendly as possible while traveling (not that I am not kind and friendly all the time smile ). I think it takes MANY, MANY good experiences to override one bad one with people of any culture.

Aren't we lucky to have a place to make friends from many countries, without leaving our cozy chair in front of the computer? smile What an opportunity!

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#61915 - 04/11/02 09:49 PM Re: why speak english
nevado Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/00
Posts: 597
Nuria, I know how you feel. One of my friends who came to my wedding couldn't stop talking trash about Madrid. I felt so betrayed. It's one thing to dislike something and another to mention it to the person's face (about their home)! She spent 7 weeks in Madrid with me and constantly criticized every detail. It's unfortunate that she couldn't find positive things to say about the city. We're still friends but I won't invite her back anytime soon.

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#61916 - 04/12/02 07:28 AM Re: why speak english
El Boqueron Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/00
Posts: 421
Loc: UK
I'm pleased to say I had the opposite experience to Nuria and Nevado when I got married at Easter in Malaga four years ago. My friends from the UK, few of whom had previously visited the area, came with the usual stereotypes about Malaga and the Costa del Sol being a vast touristic nightmare. They were amazed at how completely "Spanish" Malaga is (the Semana Santa processions were in full swing!), and how even places like Torremolinos, for all the English bars, were still mainly full of Spanish families. Everyone got a warm welcome, had a great time, and lost some unfounded prejudices!

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#61917 - 04/12/02 09:24 AM Re: why speak english
SRedw Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 200
I have to add my story to the board also. I remeber the first time that I got to Madrid. I hated it and I was going to be there for one year. I didn't want to go to begin with, for all of my study in Latin America (Guatemala, Costa Rica, Puerto Rico, Mexico) spolied me.

Then I woke up to reality and learned about all of the good things Marid had to offer. I wasn't the only one in my group. Those who also studied in Latin America first also didn't care for Madrid too much.

Madrid takes time to warm up to and I am going back to live soon. I am glad that I had the experience and will cherish it always.

It doesn't get any better than this.

Shawn

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#61918 - 04/12/02 11:34 AM Re: why speak english
dargus Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 62
Loc: Edmonton, AB, Canada
I keep reading that Madrid "takes time to warm up to", etc.. What do people mean by that? The popular travel guides tend to state that also. I will only be there briefly to start with and certainly hope that I "get it" ASAP. Friends of mine who were there a couple of years ago didn't seem to "get it" and wanted to leave. What do I need to know to enjoy this city? I'm going just to experience a vibe, a liveliness that doesn't exist in my rather drab part of the world. Is this part of the trick?

Just wondering.

Dargus

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#61919 - 04/12/02 01:39 PM Re: why speak english
Nuria Offline
Member

Registered: 07/04/00
Posts: 263
Loc: NJ, USA
This is my experience:
1. Turists that don't blend with the "locals" don't think Madrid is that great. They just go to el Prado, Sol, Palacio de Oriente... and they think "this is not that great, there are better places in Spain"
2. Turists that have friends/family there and have people to take them to different places and show them the stuff that a regular turist doesn't see... they LOVE madrid.

I believe Madrid is great not for it's monuments or museums... I think Madrid is great for its people, for its secrets, for its nightlife, for the little coffee-shops and the "bar de tapas"... those little things that take time to learn but that make Madrid such an special city...

Nuria (madrileña de nacimiento y de corazon)

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#61920 - 04/12/02 03:34 PM Re: why speak english
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
I completely agree laugh

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#61921 - 04/12/02 03:39 PM Re: why speak english
dargus Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 62
Loc: Edmonton, AB, Canada
'I believe Madrid is great not for it's monuments or museums... I think Madrid is great for its people, for its secrets, for its nightlife, for the little coffee-shops and the "bar de tapas"... those little things that take time to learn but that make Madrid such an special city...'

What can I say? This is exactly why I travel and what I seek (although I'm not always sure of what it is that I'm seeking). Monuments can be interesting and all but they don't have soul. I suppose I seek to experience the soul of a place. I really look forward to Madrid.
Thank-you,

Dargus

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#61922 - 04/13/02 10:13 AM Re: why speak english
Puna Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/07/00
Posts: 1437
Loc: Charlotte, NC. U.S.A.
Best advice - wander!!!!
Wander all over -watch - smell - feel. A good part of Madrid's beauty is in the sensory perceptions and to experience that - you must wander the streets. The museums, monuments, etc., are there - you'll see them - find a favorite or two - but the true Madrid is in it's people and their way of life. Be open to experiencing that - you'll find friends if even for an hour - and you'll fall in love with Madrid.
_________________________
emotionally & mentally in Spain - physically in Charlotte
http://www.wendycrawfordwrites.com/

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#61923 - 04/13/02 01:20 PM Re: why speak english
palice Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/02
Posts: 46
Loc: Prague, Czech republic
Reading through all your posts guys I feel very sorry to stay in Madrid only one single night! It all comes to feel so real when you describe all these positives, I wish that day was neverending. And three months ago if you stopped me on the street and said I would go to Spain in May I would never believe! But I am glad for the adventure of quick decisions and thanks to you all I have a much clearer picture about all the culture now. Can´t wait to go!
_________________________
Palice

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#61924 - 04/13/02 02:41 PM Re: why speak english
Anonymous
Unregistered


I remember my first trip to madrid,palice, savouring the anticipation of somewhere new and exciting.

I wasnt let down-even if it is a 1 day visit, enjoy!!! wink

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#61925 - 04/13/02 02:47 PM Re: why speak english
palice Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/02
Posts: 46
Loc: Prague, Czech republic
Oh, I certainly will! Remembering those slightly damp conditions of Wirral, Bebington, Bromborough and not forgetting Birkenhead...Those memories of mine! laugh
I will keep you posted all - I just wrote my up-to-date experience with organizing our trip in Classifieds/Chatroom, we will have fun...
cool
_________________________
Palice

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#61926 - 04/16/02 05:36 PM Re: why speak english
Lizziee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 58
Loc: Scotland
I can't believe anybody would be so rude to diss somebody's home city to them in the way described above. But it's not just Americans. We hate bumping into fellow Brits when abroad as all they seem to do is moan - weather, Spanish, food. I have known people take their own food with them on holiday and when I was in Mexico, a British couple proudly proclaimed they couldn't eat that "foreign muck" and then went for an Italian meal . . . Plus their idea of communicating is to shout in English, slowly and very, very loudly . . .

The thread about Madrid is very interesting too. My husband and I fell in love with the city straight away, without any Spanish friends to show us around, but mebbes thats because our idea of a holiday is to find the nearest bar, sit outside and watch people. Yes, we sightsee (our day in Toledo was especially memorable) and I loved the gardens of the Royal Palace. But we don't "do" museums - and I know that's a crime, but we had a lovely time at a tapas bar next to the Prado watching everybody out and about. (We did the same at the Louvre, but could never claim to love Paris . . . ) Seeing people, feeling the atmosphere, picking up the vibes - that's a city break, thats travelling . . . and thats why we love Madrid

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#61927 - 04/16/02 07:08 PM Re: why speak english
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lizziee
Although i am from the wirral,Liverpool.
I can see both sides too the story! I guess that palice has spent a lot of time in my county and if it has not been an enjoyable experience, then i can take it on the chin!
The wirral varies enormously from region to region so therefore some people will hate it.

This is why i decided to live here!

If palice is unhappy to spend time on "the wirral"then so be it.

I personally love the space,enviroment
and"damp".

spike1 laugh

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#61928 - 04/16/02 07:45 PM Re: why speak english
Lizziee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 58
Loc: Scotland
Oh, the usual thing of messages getting all jumbled up. I meant the American guests of a Madrileno dissing her city, not Palice dissing Birkenhead. I've lived there - I wouldn't disagree with what anyone said (joke!).

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#61929 - 04/23/02 09:45 PM Re: why speak english
toddy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/00
Posts: 303
Loc: USA
Mi suegra es de Burgos yyyyy whenever she acts a little too suegra like, I tell her I think I should learn Catalan before Spanish. he he he, a little son-in-law humor.

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