Come on Guys.
Don't be so hard on baby Bush. He's only a mouthpiece, a figure head. I agree the man is a huge ignoramous with no clue but for christ sake! Enough idiots voted for the man to be elected knowing full well what he was about. What does that really say about the majority of American attitudes??

I agree - the government runs by directorate and Bush is only a member. I find the secretary of defense, the national security advisor, and the attorney general particularly offensive.

The vote was 52% against or something similar? Also, every major city voted against him. He won thanks to a questionable vote in the state governed by his brother... however this is the fault of the US people for accepting it.

Go ahead and open a thread on Spanish views about the Middle East. I have a few opinions on that

If you trust your government (US citizens only...), you can read this from the link provided by Asterault:

If you don't trust your government, you're screwed, since that's the group you (as a nation, not Florida) voted in. Might I remind you that George W. Bush broke no laws in his bid to become president. Jeb Bush had nothing to do with the outcome, as he stepped aside to distance himself from the process. I can't even believe I'm saying this, since it's OVER and those of you who are "mano izquierdas" [or is it 'ala'], can't seem to let it Go(re).

I can only imagine the rat hole we'd be traveling down with Algore as president. At least Bush shows some passion for his country...I suppose that with Algore as president, at least they wouldn't have to change much when it came time to enshrine him into the LA Wax Museum. They might even have had him as the first "live" exhibit. I shudder to think how Animatronic Gore would've handled the WTC and Pentagon situation. "Let's try to negotiate peace between the Palestinians and Israel to divert attention from the Taliban and Al-qaeda...that's what my Daddy Bill did!"

It's also interesting to me that Bush not having left the country "too frequently" is an issue. It looks like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. I seem to recall a certain adulterous former president who "left the country" conveniently during the early 70's...to "study". Was his foreign travel to England, Canada, or Arkansas? I don't quite recall...

Anyway, this is a Spain board, and as with all politically-charged initial posts (see "...arrogant and hypocritical") nothing ever gets aired except dirty laundry (and I usually end up posting things I later regret...since I like this board, like all of you, and don't care to set anyone off...) The initial post involves Venezuela and the US, neither of which, at last check, were Spain, nor have they been Spain since at least 1830.

CaliBasco [Who was a patriot long before 9/11, and is still pissed at Tipper Gore for putting warning labels on his Twisted Sister records ]

I agree with CaliBasco. I'd rather speak about Espana, Sangria, churizo, and how good Churros are at San ginz at 6AM.

Nice try CaliBasco,

Just because you disagree with majority of the opinions in this forum doesn't mean that you get to invalidate the whole topic by blowing it off as "not Spain, so why are we talking about this anyway?"

Pretzelhead's dangerous ways affect the whole world. He's on the news as much here in Spain as he is in the U.S., thus talking about his underhanded dealings with another country is a pretty valid topic. Add to the fact that it's a Spanish speaking country and you have even more reason to chat about it here, even if it's not Spain itself. And hey, this is the General Chatter section, after all, not just the "get drunk in Spain" section.

To touch on your post a bit more, "If you don't trust your government, you're screwed..." is a laughable statement. Did you trust the government when Clinton was president? Probably not, why in the world would you think I would trust it now that a fratboy cocaine-snorting undeserving unelected upperclass illiterate imbecil is in the same office? And though I'm not Al's biggest fan, I'm quite sure he wouldn't have ignored the Middle East process like Butthead did until we're on the verge of another international crisis. ("Let them work it out themselves, but hey Isreal, here's some more tanks in the meantime... Oh crap! They invaded Palestine! Gosh-darnit!")

Anyways, since your complaint is that all this Bush-bashing isn't about Spain, how's this: Bush is still getting slammed here in Spain and the rest of Europe for his administration's double-dealings and for its support of Isreal. I think this is pretty dangerous for Americans abroad as there are bound to be backlashes against the U.S. until Bush gets his head out of his behind (if that's even possible). Spain isn't as nutty as France or Germany when it comes to Jewish issues, but it could be a lot less fun travelling in the next few months because of this.

-Russ

I just had a feeling my La Razon thread would perk everyone up. I had wanted to leave this topic, but in reading one of the posts, I found my self perplexed about the current goverment in Cuba ( I know, this is the all Spain page) Asterault writes, " Bastions of democracy like Argentina, Cuba, and Méjico refused to recognize the coup." I may have been born at night, but not last night-Cuba a democracy??????

*******COUGH*******

Ok "Ari," gotcha.

Actually, if Beardie had won the so-called elections, I doubt much would be different. I fail to understand this "Could you imagine Gore as president?" mentality. That's what people said about Bush, and the world hasn't ended has it? Though his political world hopefully will end in 2 years.

And am I to infer that Democrats or leftists are not patriots? What are we going to do, let the 'commies' take over? Invite Osama to visit the White House? ¡Viva Ché!? How insulting!

Ah, Shawn that was sarcasm

Question: Will we - and the world - sanely survive those next two years referred to in the last couple of posts?????
Puna (whose political opinions are only too obvious)

Only because the rest of the world listens. Please show me somewhere (anywhere) in "international law" where it states that in order to be a sovereign nation, you must maintain political (and economical) ties with the U.S.?

The reason we're so prosperous is because we can create, package, market and sell crap better than anyone else. A soft drink that takes the rust off nails and the oxidation off my car battery terminals...mmm...I'll take a 12-pack, please.

If the world would stop buying our crap, we'd have more to worry about than other people's issues.

And I agree, it was a nice try. But it's not whether or not I disagree with yours or anyone else's position, I've been down that hole before [on this site] and this is too nice a board and too nice a community upon which to spill ill will. I just get tired of the same story with whoever the sitting [US] president is, bash...bash...bash..."if only"..."I voted for the other guy, so I can mouth off all I want" [pretzelhead?].

I also believe in repentance, coming clean and taking responsiblity for your actions. Something sorely lacking in this country for most of the 90s ["I did not have sexual relations with that woman..." ]. I have yet to hear of anything W has done IN office of which he should be ashamed [i.e. adultery, drug use, throwing a ham over the wall into the neighbors yard...Oh, sorry, that Ozzy on the last episode of "The Osbournes"]. Didn't our former president "not inhale"... What's that?

As for travel in Spain in the "next few months"...I'm sure I'll see all of the ill will first hand when I arrive in two weeks. I can't wait. It's been twelve years since I woke up to the sight of "Yankees Go Home" every morning for four months out of my front window in Barakaldo...it'll be like old times again for me.

Oh, and Puna, we know where your political opinions lie...and we love you anyway! :p

CaliBasco [Who is definitely NotLostInTheUS but wishes he were LostInMadrid (the place, not the person, since that handle's already in use on this board)] :p

Fernando rises a hand, may I?

I may be wrong, but I think here the blame is focused on Israel and Sharon (80%) and the government of the USA (20%). Even jews and israelians (is that the word?) are not seen specificly as the ones who have the responsability of these issue, so americans (american citizens) are not the targets of our upset. Ask americans who live here... As far as I know it has not been any single riot against Israel.

If I were asked: Sharon is responsible for this state's terrorism, and he is a terrorist himself. Israel has the right to defend itself from the terrorism commited by the palestinians (and Arafat, himself a terrorist, is in part responsible for this), but has no right to harrass civilians, cities, historical monuments and sacred places as they are doing. The US government is responsible of letting this situation to go that far, they should have stopped Sharon in time.

Personally, I the arab countries attack Israel, I would not want my country to intervene in that war. Israel has helped us in the past, and is helping us yet, it was considered a friendly country. Now Sharon has destroyed that relationship in two months. He has insulted Solana (representative of the European Union) and our president, he has said (literally) "I will never meet again with the Europe representative since Europe is supporting terrorism". If it was for me I would inmediately have called the 15 ambassadors of the european countries from Israel, cut all relations and applied comercial penalties (althought for them it would be nothing). Those statements should not be tolerated anyway.

I now this is a controversial issue, I hope I'm not missunderstood...

Fernando