Wolf,
This is a perfect opportunity for the Democrats to test Bush's resolve in "protecting American minority rights" in the world. Today, I just heard that Gore has had a discussion with the NAACP in this matter. Whether you like him or not, Bush has forged a new relationship with Spain. Gore and the democrats would like nothing better than to use this issue against Bush (who is trying to establish a new Spanish language vote). And it's a reality in the United States that the NAACP is a powerful force in change at the state and national level. The United States and Spain should not disregard the problems associated with such charges.
However, I'm personally confident in the Catalans ability to make waves calm.

I wasn’t sure what this post was talking about since the first link doesn’t work anymore. Looks like there’s updated info as of 2/15/02:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020215/ap_on_re_eu/spain_police_beating_2

BARCELONA, Spain - A lawyer for black trumpet player Rodney Mack says racism is not involved in the musician’s complaint against Barcelona police, who threw the American to the ground and beat him. Police said it was a case of mistaken identity.
...

“I felt traumatized — like any moment it could happen again. I’ve been having nightmares. Last night I had this very violent nightmare that someone was attacking me. My wife says it scared her, because I woke up suddenly, screaming.”

Immediately after the attack, the NAACP in the United States and the Spanish anti-racist group SOS Racismo condemned the beating. The NAACP called the case a clear example of racial profiling and urged U.S. intervention, demanding that the ambassador to Spain file a formal complaint. The U.S. consulate in Barcelona sent a letter to the Spanish government expressing its concern about Mack’s treatment.

I personally have my doubts whether the beating would have occurred to such a degree had Mack been white, despite what his lawyer says. Though I’ve been assured on another MM thread that racism isn’t bad here in Spain, my own observations make me wonder and this story only makes it more so.

As for the NAACP intervening in this case... as an American living abroad I can honestly tell you that if something like this happened to me, I would welcome whatever help was offered to me from my government and whatever American organizations wanted to get involved. Sorry if it’s cultural imperialism or what not, I understand the concern, but if the gov or NAACP wants to fight on Mack’s behalf, I say go for it. Just because the U.S.’s own house isn’t perfectly clean doesn’t mean we should ignore transgressions abroad either – especially involving our own citizens. Personally, I think pResident Bush is a complete jerk and his “war on the ‘axis of evil’” is a joke, but I don’t think the U.S. should apologize for being a political and economic superpower either. And in cases like this I think we should use the considerable influence we have to make our concerns heard and changes made.

Personally, I hope the NAACP and the U.S. government rip the Barcelona police a good one so even IF something like this was just a mistake, in the future it’ll never happen again. ("Oye, no debemos golpear este tio tanto... podria ser un Americano..."). That would make ME feel safer living here in Spain too.

Just my thoughts...

-Russ

Well we apparently don't know the true and complete story of this incident. It does appear that the musician resisted arrest breaking the ribs of one of the four policeman!
Having spent a lot of time in Spain over the years, I have never heard of nor seen any discrimination against blacks.
As far as the Spanish justice system is concerned, the police & courts seem to be quite cautious with the rights of the accused & very lenient in the administration of punishment.
In my opinion, this matter should be handled completely by the Spanish legal system with no interference by outsiders such as the NAACP. I'm sure that the Spanish people will feel totally embarrassed & sympathetic with the black musician if he was unjustly detained and it is proven that excessive force was used.
As far as Russ (Lostin madrid)'s comments that our president is a jerk & that our "war on terrorism" is a joke, I guess he is unaware (or indifferent) of what happened at the WTC in NYC on September 11!
Furthermore we should not gloat over nor take advantage of our economic & political power to force our will on other democratic countries.It only reinforces the old stereotype of the "ugly american".

Fine. It's gone.

[ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: LostInMadrid ]

Russ, word of advice for you...
"Personal Bias and overall stupidity, do NOT mix."

Before you start an on-line flame war here, I suggest you read the rules and guidelines for this Message Board.

(And by the way Russ, I happen to be Texan. So don't mess with Texas.)

[ 02-19-2002: Message edited by: CS ]

Russ,

Way to go! In one fell swoop you called anyone who isn't a "world class traveler" ignorant, anyone who is a Texan stupid, then proceeded to tell us that the WTC, etc., was a figment of our imagination, that a world wide terrorist ring called al Qaeda doesn't exist, and it doesn't link to specific countries who harbor these people, when just about everyone on planet earth knows it's true.

Good job! Not everyone can get both feet in their mouth at the same time. I can do one, but haven't got your skills -

Gee! Thanks for pointing out to us how stupid we really are. We never knew until now -

Wolf

I've enjoyed lingering on this post, and now you'll all be privileged to hear my two euros worth.

First and foremost, the "N" in NAACP is "national". Should they choose to "broaden their influence" they might consider making it the "I"AACP. I know that most Americans look at this group (and with reason) as a black rights group, but, isn't white a color too? How about olive? :p Those catalán police officers could use some advancement too...for now, they should just stick to the N and let the I take care of itself. Spain has done just fine without them for going on 700 years now....hmmm kinda makes you think........ :p

Second, JDR, apparently you haven't been to the "right" spots in Spain, as you say you've yet to witness racism ["Having spent a lot of time in Spain over the years, I have never heard of nor seen any discrimination against blacks"]. Perhaps you've never taken the metro, or a bus, or visited downtown Madrid, Barcelona or any other major city in Spain. If you did, maybe you were sporting your new rose-colored glasses. Anyone who has actually lived in Spain, not as a tourist, but lived in Spain, knows that prejudice and discrimination are (unfortunately) alive and well.

If I were a Spaniard, I wouldn't worry too much about the NAACP getting any sanctions over on you. I'd be more worried about Franco rising from the dead to "reclaim Spain" again...t'aint gonna happen.

CaliBasco [Disclaimer: The preceding was not meant in any way to be a personal attack on JDR...it was simply my way, and most likely a poor one, of driving home a fact to which most Spaniards seem to be oblivious. I can't speak for (nor mess with) Texas :)]

[ 02-19-2002: Message edited by: CaliBasco ]

I´m a little perdida here because I read Lost In Madrid´s post a couple of times but did not see where he offended Texans. If the reference to his disregard for Bush was an offense to Texans, well it´s a bit of an exaggeration. Frankly I find it embarrassing when the U.S. President doesn´t know the difference between deflation and devaluation. I have nothing against Texans when I say that.

Anyway, I live here in Spain (for the second time in my life) and prior to that have been a tourist here on several occasions and can say with all certainty that discrimination and racism (and all sorts of "isms" such as sexism) exists here, along with a healthy dose of xenophobia... just like in the USA (although I think the USA has gotten better with the treatment and tolerance for immigrants overall). But let´s face it, as few as 10 years ago Spain did not have the immigration concerns that it does today and is only just beginning to build the political and social infrastructure necessary to support such social changes.

CaliBasco writes:

I know that most Americans look at this group (and with reason) as a black rights group, but, isn't white a color too?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the CP stands for Colored People and not so deemed because of the lack of color (or otherwise) in other races, but because at the time of the NAACP´s formation, it was politically incorrect to refer to black person as anything but "colored". The organization "changed" with the times to represent other races, but initially started as a fair rights group for the black population. No?

In any case, I reiterate what has been stated here so many times in that the NAACP has no business getting involved with Americans overseas. As CaliBasco says, the N means National. The US Embassy and US consulates here in Spain (and other countries) exist to protect the interests of Americans abroad (among other activities). If otherwise, I will have to start my own organization of AFTFAO (Association for the Fair Treatment of Filipino Americans Overseas)


P.S. That last statement was written with the intention of irony, to avoid misinterpretation.

Chica,

The post with the Texas reference was removed.

I agree that there is discrimination in Spain. For that matter, I've seen it in every country I've been in. As long as there are people, we can almost count on it existing. If it isn't color of skin, it becomes religion, or even tribes depending on where you are.

It just never goes away, does it?

Wolf

It's human nature to discriminate against others who are different. Heck, even mother hens kill their young when they're acting differently than the other little chickens. Certain humans think they're "evolved" beyond the point of differences and/or biases. Humans deep down discriminate on a daily basis, it's part of our nature. But that DOESN'T mean we cannot supress it too.

And don't think that it's only whites that discriminate. It's also Blacks, Asians, Hindus, Mestizos, and any other group there is. Deep down we are all the same.

Don't blame us, we're only human.

[ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: CS ]