Just using my very basic powers of deduction.... from what I read the hole thing seems fishy. How can four officers mistakenly beat a black American, english speaking, probably well-dressed man because they think he's a local carthief? Unlikely!
Lets break it down..First of all they would have had to get close enough to him to beat him...its not like they attacked him from afar. When this would have happened the innocent musician would have pleaded out for the men to stop in his native tongue..... English (American dialect). Now if this car thief was as "notorius" as they say he was then they would have had a profile on him....that he was not an American...but in fact a Spaniard or an immigrant from Africa.

Fernando said....

"The black spanish population is not the 30% like in the US. It is much lower (0,1% may be?), and the majority of the blacks who are living in Spain are centroafrican inmigrants. Among them the crime is higher due to their precariety. And also the majority of them are illegal inmigrants."

If this is the case that the percentage of blacks in Spains is so low and they are usually illegal centroafican immigrants...then I wonder what percent of that small percent speak English and dress to the nines...because its not very likely a famous well paid Symphony musician is going to be dressed in Barcelona's latest immigrant street gear.

I'm not saying what the NAACP should or should not do or that the whole thing hasn't been sensationalized through the media but come on already.

I don't want to excuse an improper use of force (by all meanings) but I would want to speak on behalf the common sense in any court: you may not judge by yourself not knowing all the facts. We were not there, we don't know the musician, nor the policemen.

We don't know if the musician was well dressed, we don't know if the policemen spoke english (unlikely, and more unlikely that they could distinguish between the accent of an american an a southafrican or a man from Zimbawe or Kenia, who also speak english), we don't know if the musician resisted agressively (which is a crime tipified by the penal code), we don't know many facts indeed.

Could you distinguish a man from Benin from a man from Tanganika? You are used to live with black americans. For us someone from Norway is practically identic to one from Austria, we can not distinguish a taiwanese from a japanese, and definitely we can not distinguish (I may because I have travel and I speak english, but a policeman may or may not) a black american from an african, although they may be as different as the day and the night. How many black americans do you think we see daily? The first and the last time I saw one in Spain was in the MM party...

Let's not make judgements based on our supositions, fears and feelings, and let's the justice do its job. They media judgements are not usually fair...

If the policemen are guilty they will paid for it. And I hope that if they are guilty and their motives were racial the penalty was graver.

Prudence!

Fernando

Fernando in Spain.....
"The times, they are achangin."
Dylan

Times may change, but some people don't.

Fernando writes -

"Let's not make judgements based on our supositions, fears and feelings, and let the justice (system) do its job. They media judgements are not usually fair...

If the policemen are guilty they will paid for it. And I hope that if they are guilty and their motives were racial the penalty was graver."


I truly think that sums up the situation and how it should be viewed. Spain is a democracy and I believe that justice will take it's course. If, for any reason, this does not occur - than the American Embassy has the right to intervene - the NAACP does not.

I thoroughly understand what is being referred to as "economic sanctions" - but, hey, let's get honest - Spain is one he** of a far cry from South Africa 15 years ago - and, even then, the NAACP did NOT
formulate American economic sanctions.

When the US is COMPLETELY free of biogtry and predujice for all races, religions, sex and sexual preferences - (isn't that a nice idealistic thought) - then we can preach!

Puna Writes --

"When the US is COMPLETELY free of biogtry and predujice for all races, religions, sex and sexual preferences - (isn't that a nice idealistic thought) - then we can preach!"

You go girl! I totally agree with your statement!!....and your previous posts about the NAACP having ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to get involved.

Hello, everybody.
Wolf, thank you for your first hand stories, I know the work of the policemen is hard and not well recognized, I appreciate it. I think a policeman must use the force if someone resists, of course proportional force, gun against gun, baton against unarmed people ... although frontiers between them are not always so clear...
Here in Spain, they have a lot of problems to do their job,i.e. I have heard that if they want an anti-shot jacket (I don't know if this is the word), they have to pay for it (except some specials units), some months ago two basque policemen who were regulating the traffic were killed by ETA and they didn't wear the jacket although they had asked for it because the place was risky...
I think police should be the most interested in solving these problems of abuse that give a bad image of the institution, but it looks they only fight it when it become a press scandal...
Puna I agree with you in NAACP should not be implicated, it's not their field, maybe I didn't express myself well, I think the US embassy in Spain should follow the process as an observer or even as particular accusation acording to Spanish laws.

Ciao.

I just heard that the NAACP might try and go through that "international" Spanish judge.
That's all we need, international economic sanctions. I hope this gets resolved quickly and peacfully!
Visca la Barca!

Toddy,

I don't understand what your concern is. The NAACP doesn't carry that kind of weight.

What kind of "economic sanctions" do you think the NAACP could put against Barcelona, or Spain for that matter? I don't mean to sound trite about this but I think you've given them way too much credit as a power base related to international affairs.

Wolf

Thank you Chica and Miguelito for the kind words - love that "Go girl" - know I can be opinionated - and its nice to have positive reinforcement!

And hooray/bravo for Wolf's comments in that way too much credit seems to be given for what is really not a power base related to international affairs.

[ 02-16-2002: Message edited by: Puna ]