La Maestra,
As promised I went to the Diccionario de la Lengua Españolaby the Real Academia Española, Vigésima Primera Edición, pagina 216:

Bolígrafo - Instrumento para escribir que tiene en su interior un tubo de tinta especial y, en la punta, en lugar de pluma, una bolita metálica que gíra libremente.
Bolígrafo - a writing instrument with a tube on the inside filled with special ink, and at its point instead of a nib,it has a metal ball point that rotates freely.

My linguistics colleague says the following: Bolígrafo refers to a ball-point pen of some type; and a pluma is what we commonly call a fountain pen. However, she says that to the public at large the term pluma in Mexico is the most commonly used term.

I hope this information helps.


Eddie,
Lapicero refers to a writing instrument that uses graphite instead of ink as would a pluma or bolígrafo. We use the term mechanical pencil.

Fascinating discussion!



Booklady - the librarian, who believes that a good book is a friend for life!

[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Booklady ]

[ 11-10-2001: Message edited by: Booklady ]

Felix:
That used to also apply to Ecclesiastical documents (eg. marriage certificates, etc.) that are generally 'firmado y sellado' by the signatories. Also, formal invitations and other types of documents are often done with an ink pen. There is a practical reason for that: ink will dry and not smear but something written with a ballpoint pen, or boligrafo will have a tendency to smear.
Pim:
I am well aware of the dictionary definitions for lapiz (pencil) & lapizero (mechanical pencil). My earlier post referred to usage of the term lapizero for a ballpoint pen, which I got from relatives in the 'heart of Madrid' (if I am correct using that term for C/Arrieta).

Who would'a "thunk" this thread could've gotten as big as Mont Blanc!?? (I went atop Mont Blanc in 1992 )

MM, we lefties have particular problems with lapices, don't we? I end up with a gray hand.

Thanks, everyone, for letting me know about the current uses of plumas in Spain; I am glad to hear that some schools have encouraged their use. I really prefer fountain pens, and have used them since about 8th grade. They are a pain on planes and in the bottom of a purse, but the rest of the time, they are really smooth. I write quickly and (because of being a lefty) need ink that dries fast--ballpoints are WAY too smeary. An inexpensive fountain pen will still work well...though the Watermans and Mont Blancs are pretty nice to look at! I teach, though, and my students often borrow my pens--so it's better to have ones that they can't destroy or walk off with. Many nibs will be deformed by another writer using the pen.

I always laugh when they publish photos of the US President signing a new law...there is usually a big line of plumas available, and the Prez has to use each one as he signs his name. That way the various dignitaries can say, "look, I got the pen he wrote the letter 'e' with!"

Happy scribbling, folks (why do I suspect that most of us do VERY little handwriting anyway--it's all typing nowadays!)

Tara

Hi Eddie,
Nobody from Spain would use the term lapicero to refer to a pen(bolígrafo), basically, because they're two completely different objects; which is what I tried to convey with my own definition in my earlier message. Both things are instruments used to write on paper, but a glass and a mug, for instance, can both be used to drink from them, and still you would't use those two words without distinction, although of course, if you asked for either one you'd be understood.
Hi Booklady!
I don't think anybody has mention yet that pluma=feather; it's only logical that the first writting instruments would be call exactly what they where, right?
Saludos a todos!

Damn! I write on this topic but somehow my post wasn't saved. Anyway it has all been said. In Spain we call these objects in three different ways: Bolígrafo (shortend boli), pluma and lapicero (or lápiz).

Very insteresting issue

Fernando

I always have to put in my dos pesetas...oh, BTW, MM and taravb: Soy zurdo, también, y sufro la enfermedad de la mano gris...

I always learned, as has been said, that boli was a ballpoint, and pluma was a fountain pen. As far as lápiz and lapicero, lápiz is the good old fashioned yellow pencil, while the lapicero was explained to me by my españolito friends as being the mechanical pencil variety.

Going back to the original question as to the utility of learning "bolígrafo": Tell your students to stop being so lazy or you'll use one to poke their ojo! I found in my teaching days that the kids liked saying "boli" over "pluma" anyway.

Hey, booklady: Did the Diccionario de la Real Academia really spell that verb "escrivir? Who wrote that rubbish?!

Thanks to all of you for your help!

Booklady, I appreciate your doing research for me!

MM, my first experience with the word was much like yours: I arrived in Spain feeling very confident about my Spanish, went to a local store to get a pen and discovered I didn't know how to ask for one, having only learned pluma in the US!

Thanks to those of you who could indicate which countries and in which situations one might use this word...which exactly match how I thought the word was used. If the word had fallen out of use and I hadn't noticed, I'd sure want to make some revisions in my vocabulary list!

Calibasco, this is again one of those Nogaleño problems. The parents of my students discuss the lessons with their children (which is good) and then decide that the Anglo teacher cannot possibly know the right word (which is bad.) In this case, two students challenged the word at the start of class, claiming that their families believed that I was wasting the class's time by making them learn unnecessary vocabulary that would only be used in Spain. I asked the girl if the addition of this one word was so difficult that she was experiencing some sort of cerebral meltdown. When she said "Of course not!" I asked what exactly the problem was she said there was simply no reason to learn anything that her family in Nogales wouldn't use! Ah, the joys of teaching!

Anyway, I will present the information you folks have given me to the ENTIRE class so the students know that I actually look into challenges to see if they have merit. I really don't mind these sorts of challenges because they usually wind up teaching me a lot about language, but I get my feathers ruffled when learning a single word becomes a political issue.

la maestra(who will be a librarian someday. Hey...when that happens do I have to change my name to la bibliotecaria?)

Cali,
Shame on me! Please forgive me folks and don't blame the Real Academia, but Booklady was Bad!

Hi CaliBasco(what an interesting name)!
Lápiz is short for lapicero.
Booklady,
Twelve years ago I was an exchange student at a H.S. in Ohio, and even though I'm a españolita, I confess that I took a Spanish class for one semester. Why?, honestly, because it'd raise my average grade, and to hang out with my best friends who also took it. (I know, shame, shame; but I didn't speak English at first, I'd learned French at school!). I tell you this because I must have been a little bit of a nuisance for "señora"(it still sounds weird), because she insisted in using words such as anteojos for glasses and carro for car, and refused to teach also the Spanish(from Spain) versions: gafas and coche. And I rather not remember the paella that she once concocted in the classroom!, it was what I'd call "aguachirri". But please don't get me wrong, I remember her very fondly
Anyway, I guess that if language teachers don't travel to the language speaking places, or keep in close and permanent contact with nativos, in other words, they don't do their homework :), they're likely to use words or phrases 'obsoletas'.

BTW, I have a question; what is the most commonly used word in the US these days for a secretarial position? Do you still use 'secretary' or just 'assistant'? Sorry but too much time working for a British law firm with everybody saying 'PA' makes me wonder.
Thanks in advance!

[ 11-10-2001: Message edited by: pim ]