Ignacio,

Spain is growing economically, and if there is growth in the population, it's coming from outside of Spain, since the birth rate is barely ahead of the death rate.

It's fantastic how many small businesses are cropping up all over the country. I enjoy going into the small businesses, and from what I've found, some of the smallest bars and restaurants serve the most fantastic food around. And the people... they are wonderful! They always make us feel comfortable, and at home in their places of business. That's something we don't always see in the U.S.

Wolf (Who enjoys it when waiters in Paris follow him out on the street because they are insulted by the tip for their lousy service. I've always figured a penny is fair. )

Ignacio, there is quite a bit of money related to expanding the naval base in the south. Also, the use of "Echalan"(not quite sure how it is spelled) is not given to a lot of countries. Hopefully, this will help put a stop to ETA. Next to the US, Spain has the most investment in Mexico.In order to pay for the rapidly approaching pensioners, the declining Spanish population must expand its tax base. It is strongly tied to the US now by way of NAFTA (soon to be AFTA). Bush Sr. and the Spanish King are hunting friends. Fox and Bush are VERY close friends. And, from Aznar's recent trip to Mexico, Aznar is joining the new triangle: North America, South American, and Spain. Economics, along with personal relational history, is the basis for Spain looking West.(no tomato trucks turned over here)

I totally agree about Echelon, serves for spying no matter who and what for. As for policial activities, I think the mentioned problem must have a political solution, such as in Jugoslavia or Ireland.

I read in the economic press the case you refer, though I am not pretty sure about the name of the firms.

I sincerely don't believe that the fact that some counties' presidents are friends (in case it is not a media "pose") can change relations that are stated on profit/losses of big firms, votes from farmers (banana problem), car factories' workers (Daimler-Chrysler) or so on. These are not spanish problems, but I am using them as examples of the lobbys involved.

As for the tomato trucks, french shouldn't do it, for they government agreed to the EC pact, but south and central americans should, since our out-borders superprotective agricultural policy is preventing them from being able to compete, while they have to open borders to manufactured items to maintain their tech and comfort level (like cars, except may be for Brazil).

I think that Spain is the best place in EU to invest , from US perspective.
GNP growth is still possible for several years at a higher rate than in EU 'super states' like Germany and France .
Spain's lower living standard allows faster growth rate and spanish as a language is more familiar here than others.
I am looking to invest into manufacturing sector in Spain in the next 5 years or so.
Wouldn't do it in any other country in Europe.

Sorry, folks, but alongside Echalan, Germany and France are "spying on our internet activities."
Spain, is the best investment money can buy right now in the EU. Highly educated workers with a high permanent job unemployment rate. There is a flood of professional workers leaving Spain to find work around the world. Nurses to the UK, Bankers to Latin America, and thousands of teacher to the United States.(I married one) However, soon there will be even cheaper highly educated non-union labor in Eastern Europe. And the Franco-German investment in Spain flight will begin. Spain's economy is increasingly becoming dependent on Latin American sucess. Unless the Franco-Germans keep their big companies in Spain and keep giving Spain the biggest subsidies (which eastern expansion will cut-off), Spain will not be able to pay for their aging pop. This is an economic fact. It is very interesting that Spain stood up to Shroeder to back expansion off to 2004, the same year Bush targeted for the new Latin Hemispheric trade bloc. (which will be the biggest trade bloc in the world)
Spain came late into the EU and will eventually suffer for it. However, an eventual jump off the EU ship onto the AFTA armada will not only keep Spain afloat, but will make it a world player it once was. You can (Spanish) bank on it.

Well, there is not a permanent unemployment rate. It is situated in 9%,and each year it lowers a .5% at least. It is higher than the USA, but lower than many developed countries.

Besides, in every country it exists a number of people who work, but do not declare it, and are listed as unemployed. In Spain, this is an institution.

Why do you think we are receiving hundreds of thousands inmigrants each year and the spanish do not complain? Because there is work for all of us. That supposed 9% unemployment rate is actually more close to the 5% frictional unemployment rate in the USA ( It is people who recycle themselves at the University, an academy, or take a rest between one and other work).

The fact that we are exporting qualified personnel outside our borders is due to the fact that here public University is very cheap (about 500 to 1000 $ a year if you are studying in your home town, and live at home), and the level acquired reasonable/good. But this is a plus for anybody who wonders where to invest.

Besides, salaries are very low in many of the qualified positions, so, they are very competitive.

Can you mention non-stable franco-german investments here?

Well, there is i.e. Carrefour, a chain of malls (more or less), but they are not leaving, since they make their bussiness here (sell). There is the Volkswagen make SEAT, which used to be a purely spanih make, but, if they left, somebody would buy it, as done in the past, because in the automobile industry productivity we are #1 in Europe, and it would be much easier to close plants somewhere else.

Although there are subsidies from the EC, these ones compensate the fact that many of our industries were strongly hitten or disappeared with our joining the EC, and they were negotiated in that treaty and the following, they are not free gifts, nor can they easily removed. They will be negotiated again.

There is a lot of confusion about the future of aging population. What pays for the retirement is not the children you have (may be in an old-fashioned farmers society), but the invested capital. If we (I do) put apart some money for our retirement plans, why do we have to fear about population? My plan will invest it in China, Latin America or wherever, and give me money generated with the profits that the firms which work in those population growing countries generate.

As for the AFTA, I would be very surprised if the stronger economies of South America (Argentina & Brasil) join, and doubt that the rest do it. NObody knows what could happen to their industries if overwhelmed by a bombing of more competitive North American products.

Tere is an agreement of Free Trade between the EC and Mexico, and some smaller ones with the Mercosur, that may de developed further ahead if necessary.

What I meant about permanment jobs is Full-Time work and not temporary contracted works. Your socialist party puts your unemployment at 15%. Aznar's administration pushed against Germany to be assured of Spain's subsidies even with new members who, according to the EU agreement, would deserve these subsidies. Many of the Spanish professionals here in the US are applying for permanent green cards and US citizenship because they can't find work in Spain.
Many of the immigrants that are coming into Spain are doing work that the Spanish no longer want to do.
Brazil and Argentina already, at the Summit of the Americas, already signed onto wanting to join AFTA called "The Declaration of Quebect"
Your putting away your retirment into investments is very knew in Spain, we have been doing that for years here in the US.

In my building in NYC the lights in the hallways are on all night. In Spain, you enter, you press the little button and the lights come on (they were previously off) and then hurry up the stairs, and bang! the light goes out before you get to your door. And you feel around for the button and you find it, but no, it is someone's door buzzer. Ooops, the sangria has gone to your head, and
you hurry upstairs and finally see the little light to turn on the lights and finally get up to your door.

Imagine all the electricity being saved in Spain. Compare the tiny cars to the hulking SUVs here. No wonder the US consumes a huge portion of the world's energy resources.

That's my thought's on the environment. This thread has outlasted the President's trip in Spain by more than a month.

Spanish unemployment figures are misleading, the percentage of the population 'en paro' is much lower due to those working without contracts or 'under the table.' Also, Spain is the least socialist of all the EU countries, however it has much more social welfare than the US, where the lack of it is distressing.

Is it distressing that Aznar keeps chipping away at the social welfare in Spain. Is it distressing that little gitanos go to school hungry because their school doesn't give them free food.Because guess what, our poor children not only get free breakfast but free lunch as well. And contrary to myths, they get free healthcare as well, and don't even have to pay anything for their medicine. And how much to Spanish children have to pay for their school books; here they're all FREE for all children. Who's distressed now?
The SUV market is booming in Spain. I never saw so many big American cars in such little streets and yes the president left, but Aznar's coming to Bush's ranch. Adios y Hola
The close friendship continues.