Why do Europeans protest Bush's opposition to ratification of Kyoto? The only European country to ratify it was Romania, and that was a while ago. Wouldn't that protest-energy be better spent lobbying their own leaders for ratification? Seems that European countries are also dragging their feet on ratification too but passing responsibility on to the US.

Antonio- The Kyoto Protocols deal primarily with Carbon Dioxide (co2). Did you know that North America ABSORBS more co2 than it emits? That is correct. Due to the large forests and agricultural areas (whose plants absorb co2 and emit oxygen as part of Photosynthesis)USA and Canada are "importers" of co2, not "exporters" like Western Europe.

Kyoto fails to address the emesions of vastly expanding industrial states like China, Mexico and India. Kyoto sounds good but won't be very effective in practice, which is why every western European gov't. has refused to implement it, not just the US.

For an interesting take on the idea of a North American "carbon sink", check out Land Use Controls U.S. Carbon Sink

The study indicates that previous estimates of the carbon absorption of the North American carbon sink have been vastly overstated.

Regardless, there won't be a carbon sink if the logging industry continues to overcut ancient North American forests(e.g., temperate rainforests in British Columbia...visit Greenpeace for more information).

Carbon sinks have become a cop-out for the US to continue its current level of greenhouse gas emissions, while avoiding the issue of land use and its concomitant impact on the global climate. We in the US have a great deal more on our environmental conscience than the emission of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases.

[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: LaProfesora ]

Interesting and informative viewpoints and links. The point is that the Europeans are complaining bitterly about Kyoto, yet they themselves will not put the treaty into effect. Until they do, they should quite down about US enviromental policies.

A few points- Antonio's reports are from the US EPA, and deal only with US production and absorption of co2- it does not address Canadian absorption rates, which plays a significant role in NORTH AMERICAN co2 levels. LaProfessora's reports state only that there is conflicting data about US co2 absorption levels.

OK, I'm through.

Where's Anchovy Front? I want a report on "global warming" on Costa del Sol beaches!!

The Kyoto Protocol isn't realistic unless all nations in the world participate. Within 24 months after it went into effect, India and China alone (since they would not participate in the accord) will generate more additional carbon emissions than the total reductions in the U.S.

It isn't just Bush who's against it. So was Clinton and his administration. There are also rumblings that most nations want to "modify the terms" related to their own individual involvement as well.

Wolf

I don't think I made my question clear. What I was wondering is why NO European (save Romania) country has approved Kyoto. It seems that Europeans place a high value on environmentalism, but it has yet to be ratified by any of the countries that now so bitterly complain that the US rejects it. I was just wondering why that is.

Antonio,

The simple fact is that nobody should be asking anyone else to make a commitment that they won't match themselves.

It all boils down to Spain, Germany, and half of the countries in the world telling the U.S. that they want them to follow the rules, while they modify them to their own level of control. In other words, we're supposed to hamstring our economy so that other nations can go full speed ahead without regard to the Protocol just because someone said it was "The right thing to do."

When Spain ratifies the accord, without modifications to the original proposal, then come back and tell us how we're "bad people" for not signing a blank check for the world to cash as they want.

As for the U.S. being the biggest polluter, that's true, but for some reason over half of the nations also believe we're their private "ATM card" as well. If we told them that our foreign aid was going to disappear to allow for tax credits to people so we can meet the requirements of the Protocol, I wonder how many nations would still be interested in putting it in motion.

Even if it was put into effect, how many countries would need aid from the U.S. just to implement the program? Obviously if we cut aid to meet the Protocol... they wouldn't even bother to consider implementing it.

Although I agree that global warming is a problem for future generations, I have read too many studies that say that the Kyoto Protocol isn't even close to the answer. In fact, some studies indicate that it's a crack pot idea that people are buying simply because the media doesn't give equal space to other points of view, like the MIT studies.


Wolf (Who isn't in to signing blank checks)

When you say your country, you include all people in it. That is insulting.

If I say all Spanish are 'fachas' that's not true. I am against the death penalty and in favor of environmental reform, and there are many many (a lot!!) Americans that feel the same way. This issue is that 'the old guard' is in power due to a questionable election - but that's a different argument.

The US, like Spain, is a polyglot of people all of whom are very different.

[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: Asterault ]

Pues Antonio, no pasa nada, aunque vivo aquí voy a decir lo que pienso es la verdad, no obstante de la nacionalidad!

Sabes que (escribo en Ingles para los otros)..

Favor for the death penalty in the US is only 50-55%? This is lower than I thought before and lower than in France when they stopped it there in 1981!

I think (and hope) the US will stop the death penalty within 5 years. As for the environment, the US is surprisingly not as bad as one would think far as environmental regulations go. However, like you say, there is much work to be done...

So wouldn't the protesters' energy be better spent lobbying your own governments to ratify Kyoto? I mean, if Azerbajain passed it three years ago, what's Spain's excuse?

And regarding the death penalty, did you actually vote to abolish it? Recent studies show that even a majority of citizens in Sweden, reknowned for their concern for human rights, favor the death penalty (sorry I can't get the study outside of work). But it was never presented for a vote.