just for the record, i am an american, and i dont have a gun.


dan m

Dan: it's SOY AMERICANO. Can you change the subject of your post so my teacherly eyes don't cringe? gracias mil.

'¿Gracias mil?' How about: 'mil Gracias' for el Maestro?

um, eddie, gracias mil is totally
idiomatic, especially in writing.
y soy profesora, no 'maestro'

no te ofendas, pero cuando se trata del 'honor linguistico,' tengo que defenderme!

a mí me gusta más la palabra maestro y maestra, es más poética. Aunque mis padres son profesores de instituto(High school) en España y tampoco les gusta llamarse maestros. Pero bueno, sobre gustos no hay nada escrito. About tastes it's nothing written...jeje

Speaking of the gun mentioned in the original post at the top, when my students write the following in Spanish I want to blow my brains out:

Me llamo es Antonio (or any name here).

Me llamo Antonio. (or) Mi nombre es Antonio. But don't mix the two together as one.

That "estoy americanos" is the story of my life. Ouch, ouch and double ouch. rgf, do you still see these grammar mistakes when the kids hit college level? I see them in levels
I and II, but by Spanish III (high school) the language skills get polished.

Hi Dan and Abby (alias summerinspain - I read about the name change.)

"Party on."
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Sofia-- I certainly do hear "me/mi llamo es" and "estoy estudiante" and all the rest, after students have passed Regents' exams, have taken AP Spanish... hence my frustration. I class I often acted shocked: Que has dicho?? Mi llamo es???? Such is the way of language learning!

Since everyone here are highschool teachers or Spanish professors I'll represent the Spanish student's point of view. I am presently a senior in college, two majors in Spanish, and International Relations, with a Certification in Latin American and Caribbean Studies. If all works out, hopefully I will graduate in May. Here are a few points to consider from the highschool and college student's point of view:

1. Learning Spanish from limited exposure(class room time 1-2 hr) and textbooks without study abroad or sometime of immersion in the language or culture is virtually impossible! How many people that have studied Latin intensely(text only)exposure could rattle of a fluid conversation? Learning language just doesn't work like that. I took several semesters of Spanish without feeling very confident and it wasn't until I was ensconced in a working atmosphere of South American and Spaniards did I feel better about my speaking abilities and comprehension. You have to be able to speak without thinking about what part of speech the word or tense a word comes from and when you are in highschool or college many times that is all you have to work with. How many times did I get nervous speaking in class and make a stupid error that I would otherwise would know and kick myself later? More than I care to remember.

2. Many times it is embarassing for students to practice language skills in class. It is hard for language students of all levels to take the leap and risk looking stupid in front of the class.... then there always the native speakers,2nd generaton speakers, foreign study students etc.. that make those that aren't at the same level of proficiency feel like real idiots. Everyone is in the same class but nobody has equal abilities.

3. Teachers/Professors are not always the greatest. I'm not saying this is the case with anyone here and I've had more good than bad but...there are not enough good highschool teachers from what I've experienced. These are the critical years because the younger you are the easier it is to absorb. I had a couple that pronounced everything anglocized(French teacher too) and made learning correctly impossible at the time. I've even had grad students in my university classes recently that are already elementary teachers and don't sound so hot. This isn't usually the case but it can really hurt if it is.

Finally... the things that seem so basic like ser and estar really are not without foreign study experience. When I began I had to try and list off the conditions in my head in which situations they were was used. It can be confusing for someone with no background because rules can seem contradictory and confusing. Now that I just speak without having to think grammatical rules first, my bro that is learning asks me why I just used certain tenses in conversation and I honestly don't always know why. Thank goodness I've finally arrived.

Sincerely,
Jaime
The Happy Spanish Student

Jaime--I agree completely! Back in the day when Cervantes was just a wee lad and I was in high school I thought I was learning to speak Spanish. Actually, I was learning to pass the Regents exam. In fact, the entire final quarter of my sophomore year was spent teaching us little tricks for the exam. Only now, as I study Spanish to learn to speak it with Spanish speakers, do I appreciate the difference.

What the academics among us need to remember is how few people from the States bother to speak any language other than English (and even English tenuously at best!) and how appreciative people in other countries are of ANY attempt to communicate on their terms. No one I met in Ecuador preferred to use their uncertain English rather than my halting Spanish, and no one abused me for my errores. Indeed, more than one shop owner chose to communicate with other customers from the States through me--I became quite popular on quite limited skills! The important thing, as you say, is to keep speaking--that in itself is the best instrument for learning to speak well.



[This message has been edited by aphra (edited 02-04-2001).]

Jaime-- I really appreciate the reminder of what it is like to be a language learner within high school/university walls. My own experience as a learner was exceptional, because the goddess simply gave me an ear to learn langs. with practically no effort as long as the teacher/ambience was halfway decent. YOu'll all be relieved to know I've lost it in my 40s! In any event, ser/estar is in fact one of the hardest grammatical aspects to learn (along w/ preterito/imperfecto). Aphra is totally right on in saying that North Americans in general don't place importance on learning a lang. other than Eng. That's putting it midly. Speak ENGLISH, my SECOND generation Italian relatives tell me when they hear me speaking spanish. Counterphobia if ever I saw it. Jaime, that is my son's name. What do Spanish-speakers make of your 'male name in Spanish'? Bet they pronounce it "Chaymi" imitating English!