I've been observing the posts here, and as was said this is definitely an interesting, if not "hot button" topic.

Here's my take: It's all about knuckleheads. Every country's got 'em, every culture's got 'em. There are international knuckleheads everywhere that make things difficult for everyone: white knuckleheads, black knuckleheads, brown knuckleheads, etc. It seems that the problem for most of us is identifying the knuckleheads (remembering the phrase: "we have met the enemy and they are us!") and looking past them to see people as they really are.

I've encountered racism targeting me in the U.S., which may seem strange to you Americans on the board, since I am considered the "majority": white. I have also encountered some of my favorite people in all the many cultures and races I interact with. It boils down to your and another's desire to be civil, human and kind to one another. No one country has a monopoly on nice. On the contrary, it seems that many people are trying to monopolize "mean".

When you go to another country, enjoy the people, look past the knuckleheads and come home with tales of great things, not negativity. That is how true goodwill is fostered, nurtured and allowed to thrive.

I'm very interested to hear what all of you have to add as this discussion has been incredibly interesting to this point.

Sure, knuckleheads are a big problem and exist everywhere...Still, I think it is crucial to get to the bottom of things and to try to find out WHY race still matters, because otherwise, if we just hope and ignore these issues, the world will never become a better place. The US is a country with a diverse population, and people have to find a way to live together and, eventually, arriving at a point where racial differences lose their importance, and where no group feels disadvantaged.
Europe becomes more diverse, too, with foreign workers, refugees and immigrants, and we have to find a way how to integrate them in our societies without forcing them to give up their identity, developping tolerance on both sides. Cultural diversity is a huge challenge. Spain has a tolerant society, but is not without problems in this field either- like integration of people from Morocco, secessionist movements in the Basque country and Cataluña.
The issue is always cultural identity and diversity- how do we define our identity, how much diversity can we take? There are people skeptical about multicultural societies as such. However, I do not think this skepticism is helpful for Europe, and you cannot reasonably reject the idea of multiculturalism for America because there is already a diverse society and the question is how to live together and accept each other in the best way.
Anyway, I think travelling around the world, analyzing the situation in other countries, can be helpful in order to have a fresh look at the own country as well, and maybe make a modest contribution in order to make all our societies more tolerant.

I found your reference to the Basques interesting. In stark contrast to today's minority cultures in both the U.S. and Spain, the Basques have ALWAYS simply wanted to be Basque. Others have always been allowed to come into their lands, visit, stay, whatever, just as long as you let the Basques be Basques. They're not about making your life miserable because you're not like them. On the contrary, you won't find a warmer group of wonderful people in the world! They have taken much in the way of ideas from other cultures, but if there is one group I'm aware of that holds fast to its history, they are it.

I think a good example of how they view integration is what they've done in Southern California. As many know, the Basques view the U.S. as the "eighth province", and revere the freedom and opportunity that it has provided for many Basque expatriates. Whenever we get together with the other Basques in this area for a picnic, club dinner, etc., they always start with the U.S. National Anthem, and both flags are on display: Old Glory right next to the Ikurriña. This contrasts quite starkly with other ethnic celebrations where the use of "Old Glory" is looked upon with disdain or as if you were "selling out" your culture.

I don't think that the Basques are necessarily bent on secession, just a small, but very vocal minority. Rather, they just want to be allowed to be Basque. "If you like that, great. If not, we're sorry, but we still want to be Basque." What a great lesson in respect for others, and also in being true to who you are!

Did you know that the largest Basque concentrated population outside of Spain is right here in Boise, Idaho? That's right...the Basque people started coming here during the 1800's to become sheepherders because the surrounding land is very similar to the Basque country. The original Basque boarding house they stayed in when they first came is the oldest standing structure in the valley and sits in the "Basque quarter" of downtown Boise (metro area 400,000 people). Also on the same street is the Basque Center of Arts, the Basque museum and a couple of Basque bars and eateries.

Leche

I agree, there are many wonderful people in the Basque country who are tolerant in the pursuance of their own cultural identity, and they represent the majority.
The reason I mentioned it, though, is that there are nevertheless obviously problems connected to that region, and problems that are exemplary of the issues of identity, and tolerance for diversity, that we discussed before. As long as there is a small violent minority spreading terror, violence and murder over the entire country, one cannot deny that problems do exist, as tolerant as most of the people might be. I still have my problems in explaining the actual reasons for this violence and find it very depressing.

[This message has been edited by connie (edited 10-20-2000).]

I agree with Sevilla when she said earlier that "its not a skin problem its a behavior problem" or image problem. I've always considered myself to be absolutely open minded and nonrascist but living in an urban university environment for the past five years has caused me to look at a few things regarding race carefully.
First of all I found myself guilty when I would be walking down the street in the early evening and see a young black guy dressed in gangster or hood garb. I would think to myself, I am a rascist person because I am choosing to cross the street. After feeling guilty for a while I realized I am not rascist, I am reasonable. I have black friends, most actually from Africa, and believe of course race has nothing to do with capabilites or equality. However, the one difference between hardcore hood guy passing me on the street and my girlfriend from South Africa is behavior and clothing.

Don't you belive it is a resonable assessment to make that if you listen to MOST rap music you will hear nothing but disgusting and vulgar references to violence, brutality against women, robbery, drugs etc...When you look at the image these gangstas with an attitude have and then you see a wannabe kid on the street with the same look and the attitude walk, its reasonable to think that kid could have the same views as his role models.

I actually made the mistake once of not "crossing the street" when my insticts said I should because I thought just because its a black guy dressed in hoodgear I shouldn't behave differently than if it was anyone else. Guess what?? I got mugged that night when I was 6 months pregnant.

Does this mean I'm a rascist person? NO way. All this means that in a fleeting moment when I don't get to know somebody first on a personal basis, I can make logical inferences on the way somebody looks for safety purposes.

Coming from someone who actually listened to violent rap music in the highschool years and thought the whole image was fun, I would now say as an adult that this crap is destroying the image of the black community and it is really unfortunate because most of it does not have a positive or creative message unlike one of my favorite artists, the amazing Lauren Hill.

Back to the original question, if the person still cares...South America and central America are beautiful, however research carefully the countries you want to go to because many are very dangerous right now!! My husband if from Venezuela and one of the reasons he left was because of the crime rate. This is true of other countries like Coloumbia and certain parts of Brazil. The poorer a nation or region is the more dangerous it is going to be.

One of the most beautiful places I have been to in Central America is Belize(3X). Most of the country is English speaking but it is so tiny that you can be in either the Yucatan peninsula in Mexico or Guatemala or Honduras in a couple of hours on a bus. it is much safer than the surrounding countries, although common sense should be exercised of course, and it has the second largest Barrier reef for snorkeling, diving etc...in the world. It is nontouristy with large amounts of pristine jungle reserves, ruins etc....The people are warm and friendly and there is quite a mixture. Many Black creoles, Garifuna(black and Carib indian mixture), Maya, Meztizo and even German Menonite. Amazingly enough, they get along better than any group of people I've seen. Belize would be a great base country to stay and go back and forth to the surrounding spanish speaking countries.

On the other hand I would move to Spain or go to school there in a heart beat if I could and I don't think it is as dangerous. I guess it just depends on what type of culture intrigues you the most at this point in time.

Hi,
I am not going to defend sevilla, but I (and I am ashamed of say this) am a little bit scared when I see black people dressing weird, or mexicans talking and acting with agressivity, but I am scared too when I see policemen that look very tough. I think that we use the word racism without knowing what we mean. I am not racist but I admit that other cultures or other ways of expression different from mine scare me as much as they attract me. I think that sometimes the minorities act more agressive because they feel the need of being respected, one way or another. I have never been expossed to a different culture until I came here, I like it the same way that it scares me. I would like everybody to have their own opinion, if you like different cultures good, if not good too, but I would like everybody to respect everybody just for the fact that ALL of us are HUMANS.

Rap is to music as decapitation is to brain surgery. Call it whatever you wish, but don't call it music. The Muses would run in terror if ever confronted with his garbage.
Cantabene

I believe that rap 'is' a form of music and poetry because... just like there are crappy songs on the radio sometimes and you don't like the lyrics, it doesn't mean it isn't really music. My point was "most" not all of it, sends a really detrimental message to people who are influenced easily. It also depicts Blacks in a harmful way and perpetuates really unhealthy behavior and lifestyles with young people. A rap by Will Smith expressing the joy of being a Dad was a great poetic way to express his feelings, most however encourages violence and is counterproductive to the progress of the Black community.

HEY HEY HEY!! It's official! I leave one week from today for Peru!! Landing in Lima on the 24th, wait in the airport for a few hours then grab another flight to Cuzco where we'll tour around the city for several Days. We also plan to go UP Machu Picchu at least twice (once in the afternoon and once for the sunrise). Next, we'll go to Arequipa for serveral days and hike/travel/drive through the Cañon del Colca. Finally, we fly back to Lima for one night/day there.

In all, it's 2 weeks in Peru and I'll finally get to compare firsthand(!) (some of) the differences between Spain vs South America. AND, even better than all that, my ladyfriend herself (a Spaniard) can compare the two as well.

Praying NOT to get the trots, MadridMan