Nicole,
Well said, I couldn't agree with you more!

dude............ i don't know anymore hahahahahah, i'm like all lost right now in emotion.

Wow, this is a great thread.

I'm doing some graduate work now (along with a few million other things), and just last week I read an incredibly good book that deals with most of the issues brought up in this thread. It's called "Why are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria" and Other Conversations About Race, by Beverly Daniel Tatum. If you feel passionate about race issues in the U.S.(and it sounds like some of you do!) you've got to read it - it's amazing. It's not long, it's an easy read, and you may even find your local library has it. If I had time, I'd tell you more, but you can read a whole bunch of reviews on it at Amazon.com. (BTW, it's not only about Blacks and Whites - it's also about Latinos, American Indians, multiracial families, etc.)

Diversity, assimilation and culture are very sensitive and interesting topics. As a mother of 3 children: son-25 years old; daughter - 20 years old and son - 16 years old, these issues are part of our everyday life. The United States is really a very unique place because of the diversity of people who make up the population. Often diversity creates some misunderstanding in school when a child first encounter someone outside of his race, family and comfort zone. For example my children comes from a mixed marriage (Black-Hispanic/Spanish/Asian) and we are the only non-white in our community. My children have attended an all-white school since Pre-K. Whenever they are asked what are you? They always remarked, "do you have time to listen for me to enumerate my ethic background". Often they just say I am American. Parents and school must start early in children's life to familiarize respecting other cultures. One way of doing that is by travelling. When my children were young, we traveled often to places quite different from our U.S. environment. They saw places, lifestyle and people quite different from their comfort zone. Often I noticed at social gatherings I have attended, people who have travelled often outside the U.S.A show more respect and tolerance to diversity and culture. One time, we were in Hongkong and ended in a restaurant where we were the only non-Chinese. We felt uncomfortable being different and to top it all not able to speak Cantonese or Mandarin. We survived the ordeal by asking who among at the restaurant spoke English. My daughter who presently is in Madrid studying, noticed that the most of the U.S.students in her program do not try hard to speak Spanish, understand the Spanish Culture and seem to forget the purpose of their stay in Madrid -- to practice their Spanish and learn about Spain. They complain about everything and making comparison between US and Spain. Because there is no effort on these students to assimilate in their new culture, life has become miserable to some. My daughter made extra effrot to make friends with other Spanish students and spend more time with Spaniards rather than her fellow U.S. students. She has been invited by her Spanish friends to their farm or home. She has eaten and tasted food foreign to her palate. She now eats and talk like a Madrilena. She is enjoying Spain very much because she understands and appreciates the Spanish culture and practices. One fo the One of the experiences she encountered that reminded her of the U.S. is visiting the African section in Spain. Shen noticed that these Africans are unfriendly because they poor and uneducated. Ignorance sometimes is caused by lack of education and exposure and sometimes money. One needs money to travel and to do differenct things like going for different tapas. This webboard is very educational and interesting. I have enjoy reading everyday messages of differenct topics

Nicole - I am understanding your point. If a young black man grows up in the inner city of say, Chicago, NYC, ect he will be influenced by his surroundings. So should we say, oh, "it's not his fault he acts like a gangsta and all dangerous"? no. He still made that decision. I am around people all day that I feel are very different from my lifestyle and way of thinking. On the other hand, when you see a black guy as I described flaunting his stuff in Idaho or some other state hundreds and hundreds of miles from any "inner city" can you assume that it's his environment gave him the motivation to go out of his way to behave like this? of course not. He got it from the rap culture he sees on TV, ect. This was my point, this isolationism is creating a chasm inbetween people. It's one thing to see someone who looks different from white (like a hispanic) walking down the street. Many people would of course feel like they could easily overcome any internal prejudices and approach that person. But a black guy acting all hard? not a chance. It's a lifestyle where they are trying to promote aggresiveness, abuse to women, and not caring about life. This may be what it's like to live in the hood in east compton but not in Idaho, oklahoma, montana, ect....but you can find these types all across america. And white kids doing the same thing for that matter! So you see, it's not about race, but about trying to alienate yourself from the society. But why are most kids like this black? ask yourself that question.

bottom line is, both sides must make honest effort to be an outgoing society (like in spain).

Leche

I hope that I am not sounding like a racist because I am not. My first sentence was that I didn't understand American's racism until I came here, and the reason why I understood them is because almost all the scary people that I've seen here are foreigners. Again, I've seen very nice people who are foreigners. But, honestly, what kind of people you see when you go to the bad areas of the city? How many whites are there? Someone has told me (and maybe is just a tale that they tell to foreigners) that there is a neighborhood in Chicago where all of them are blacks and they have guns and if you go there and you are white you won't leave alive.
See? The problem is that in the bad neighborhoods almost all of them are blacks, or hispanics so people think that they born being bad persons when actually is their way of life what make them to be thieves or drugs dealers or whatever. I don't think that anybody here is right, all of us have good points so none of us has the truth on our hands. I can understand that Nicole defends other cultures, but you cannot be blind, the numbers are there, most of the criminals are not white. The point is that blacks/hispanics/white/indians... are not all good and they are not all bad, but some races are luckier than others and the ones that are not lucky have to find a way to survive and usually that way is not being nice but agressive. The right thing to do is help the "not lucky" races to get a better life.

What really troubles me is when Sevilla states that because some blacks "act scary" it justifies racism against everyone that is black, and that an entire races of people (hispanic, black) "are not trying." It is such a ridiculous generalization. Once again, it is a refusal to view the individual as a human being instead of part of some from a group you have arbitrarily lumped together and decided to dislike. One: there is not is A black or A Hispanic culture in the US. What is Hispanic anyway- mexican, puerto rican, peruvian, honduran, etc. I can tell you from working with both Mexican immigrants and Cuban refugees, there is a heck of a cultural difference between the two groups. -and differences among them. You cannot say that there is a A white American Culture either - or even an american culture. LAst year I went to dinner with a couple from South Carolina, and they would not stop talking about the differnces between the food, language, culture between S.Carolina and Kansas City.

When I was in Spain I got into a discussion with some one about the U.S. This person had spent one week in L.A. and came back with all of these weird stories about what the United States was like. I told her that one of the things I really loved about this country was the fact that it is impossible to generalize about it. New Orleans is so different from Minneapolis, which is so different from Miami, which is different from Seattle..etc.

You know, that is the same thing that made me fall in love with Spain. It was such an unexpected dicovery for me. I thought it was so neat to go to Galicia and hear bag pipes when you walk down the streets. Head down to the south and look at all the moorish influences in the architecture, go up to Barcelona and try to make out what the Catalan menu on wall means, and then head over to San Sebastian and listen to Euskadi on the radio.

Leche, I think you obviously dislike this culture you have tried to define. I just wonder how well you actually know or understand it. I am not an expert by any means, but I have found that when you make an effort to get to know a particular culture, you come up with things that you like and things that you dislike. When some one has an overwhelmingly negative view about a particular culture, it usually means they have had very little meaningful contact it. That is why stereotypes/ prejudice are so interesting. They are never actually based on knowlege and information. It is based on fear and or suspicion of the unknown. It continues on when you view the few people you have gotten to know as "exceptions to the rule." Shoot, we are all exceptions to the rule, once you get in deep enough...

I think we could go round and round, and would never quite arrive at the same place. I think we are writing from and about totally different things. But, it is healthy I guess to have a forum in which to discuss it...

sevilla, if you actually look at crimes committed, it is not that the people committing them are not white, we just don't put whites in jail as often as we do people of color. I am sorry, but you might want to investigate it a little further and you will find that I am right.

i'm sorry sevilla, but this whole thing about a neighborhood you have heard of that if you are white and you go there you never leave, is like something that came out of a movie or something. If you base your argument on that, it doesn't hold any water, that just sounds very ridiculous. Yes there are very bad nieghborhoods in this country, like everywhere else in the world. yes there are some places where you shouldn't just go to at night, i've lived there, but i am VERY disturbed when people say that's it's mainly other ethnic groups besides white people, which i would really like someone to define for me, what is a white person? There are MANY white people that are felons and that are in jails, you have to be out of your mind to think that's it's mostly other ethnic groups. You know there hasn't been any other race on death row besides a white man? give me break. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo many white people committ crimes, other races committ crimes. everybody does, everybody.



[This message has been edited by missmadrid98 (edited 10-19-2000).]

Sevilla,

I came to the US when I was 24 years old. Now I am 50 years old. I have met people from differenent cultures, color and economic backgrounds. In my travels to several countries, one thing I have seen, the poor and desitute neighborhood are alike, that is crime is everywhere and dirty. You mention that "blacks" behavior scares you. I too, would be scared if I where in a bad neighborhood not because they are blacks. I would be scared in any bad/poor neighborhood. My daughter who is currently in Spain told me that she does not see the Africans walk along the streets of the family she is staying. Why? because she said lives in very representative section of Madrid. Why are there no Africans in her neighborhood because of the Africans in Spain are poor and uneducated. In the U.S. especially where I live Washington D.C. metro area - Washington, D.C., Maryland and Virginia, you will see affluent Hispanics, Blacks, Whites and Asian living in the same community. What are their similarities -- they all have money and are educated. My youngest boy whenever we would go to do some shopping at an Asian store in Virginia, he reacts with fear becasue of the Asian teen age gangster in the area. When we have to do our shopping at a Spanish community, he reacts the same -- presence of Spanish gangster. When we go fishing in an area in Viriginia, my son has the same reaction - presence of "poor whites". When we visit our friends who live in the heart of Washtington, D.C., my son reacts the same - presence of blacks gangs. As you can see Sevilla, I live in an area where we bad elements of every race in different parts of the area but there are also areas where different races live together in a beautiful neighborhood because they have money and education. My children are very lucky to be exposed to both elements, bad and good people from different races and nationalities. In my former country, we are homogeneous but are separated by economics. The poor people live in a bad community like the one you described where blacks live. The well-to-do and upper class people live in a very nice and safe community. USA is country that is so diverse. Have you been to the Appalachian? Try to go there and you will see white americans living in horrible condition. They are poor. Are they poor because they are white? Of course not! They are poor because of lack of opportunity and education. The world is coming to a point where people will be divided according to education and money. It is showing in my area. The highly educated folks live in a particular area regardless of color. There is this place in Maryland called Potomac. Doctors, lawayer and accountants live there. You will white, blacks, asians and hispanics.