Quintos:

Well, as you say, spanish or european pure blood (for what is worth it, that is: nothing :p ) is not so easy to be found anywhere in america. Most ppeople has at least 1/8 or 1/16 of something else.

After centuries of mixing, you can always see a native american . For example, my best friend in Madrid is Pepe, a peruvian who, when coming with me to peruvian parties, peruvians themselves think he is spanish, because he is blonde, his skin is even wither than mine or as much at least, but however, his eyes have an indian american shape and his nose is a bit broad, and after a close look, you can tell that he is not 100% european by this features.

Ninas:

That's the black legend. If you go to Cuba, they tell you the same, but if you look at people from underdeveloped regions in Havana (for example) you'll find that, for example, the policemen, that come from rural extraction, are clearly a mixture of indian american and white, instead of the white, black or mulatto mix you usually get in Havana.

No need to apologize. Latinos is short for Latin American, meaning people who have culture or blood from the latin-called countries like Portugal (Brazil) Italy (part of Argentins) and Spain. But I myself say latinos sometimes for short, I just said that to clarify the discussion, which has a lot to do with ethnic origin.

That all said, as I know the PC lovers will soon be on my back, I need to specify that there is absolutely nothing bad with being of native american descent and that out of anecdotic comments like these, I believe racial issue is unimportant unless for each person esthetic likes. For example, I don't like much asian or "latino" girls (with strong native american heritage) but I love black girls appeareance.

Ignacio, you said:

"That all said, as I know the PC lovers will soon be on my back....",

I'll give you my rule of thumb for applying PC at all times: Imagine your best friend the Peruvian guy is in the same room as you, or for that matter, myself (Ecuador/Pakistan parents), or a Chinese, Phillipino, Japanese....Imagine if you were in the same room, would you say the same things? Would you say as you have said in your last post

"I believe racial issue is unimportant unless for each person esthetic likes. For example, I don't like much asian or "latino" girls (with strong native american heritage) but I love black girls appeareance".

Would you say to my face that you don't like Latin girls of 'strong native american heritage' or 'asian' appearance. Since I fit both those classifications so important to you to express your disdain, would you really say that to my face? Would you?

No? Yes? This message board/forum is just that: a room. Just like a real bar or meeting place or any public place, this forum is no different. If you wouldn't dare say something to someone's face, (you didn't to me when we met in Madrid), don't say it in a place like this.
Its my rule of thumb for behaviour since I don't like to make anyone feel bad, uncomfortable and/or depreciated. I don't see people for what colour they are, I just don't.

REcently, someone was discussing what a friend said about the chinese, (it pains me to bring it up again), and it was as if there aren't members on this board of asian origin, as if somehow the code of behaviour on this board is confident that this is exclusively a no go area for anyone like myself, or of other non "white" continents.

Do you really believe that all the Spanish members on this board are not of Latin Amercian exptraction?! Then think again. I know of spouses of members on this board who are South American and of Spanish residents on this board of South/Latin American and asian origin.

To not have a thread on subjects such as these would be to deny that this issue to Spain is a big one. But Ignacio, your opinions are offensive, your idea of being pc is warped, not all Spaniards are like you and yet you feel the need to speak for all, you make sweeping generalisations of cultures and people you know nothing about and places you have never been before and write off whole communities such as Harlem simply because "ghetto" to you means the undesirable. YOu incessantly rant your hatred of such things. Why don't you see that Spaniards have equally have migrated as much as other people and have formed ghettos themselves as they had and have done here in London's Portobello, for example. For me, it's nice to have big communities or there wouldn't be tapas bars, spanish schools and churches for people to feel that they BELONG.

A suggestion, build your own forum in which to discuss your dislikes.
I am so glad that I visited Spain before I joined this board otherwise I would have travelled there being defensive, scared even. And yet I'm compelled to keep coming back on this board to see what's going on because on the whole it's a good forum.

Miche - Welcome back! and thanks for your comments - I think they represent the thinking of many of us ...

Miche:

I see your point about telling someone in his face that you don'tlike his/her appeareance. HOWEVER, I don't tell everybody who I don't like aesthetically that I don't like his looks.

I don't because I would have to tell so to 95% or more of the people, including me . I'd have to say so to the old, to the fat, to the extremely thin, to the dirty, to the punkies, to the drunk, ...

People who are fat or thin usually know it themselves and don't need anybody to be telling them they are, and in this case they would say: "And if you don't like me, so what?", a logically hostile attitude.

That's why I don't tell people.

HOWEVER, I have great latino friends, and it's been very difficult for me to explain them why I don't usually feel physicaly attracted by latin american girls we often meet. But I did. I had to be VERY careful and it needed a conversation, to explain that it's not really a racist point of view.

Since explaining myself requires greater details that I wanted to give, I'll have to be clearer:

- As usual, you have misinterpreted me. I didn't say that I didn't just like their looks. I said I didn't like them aesthetically. That is, I don't find them pretty. Is that a sin? Do you think I would have felt offended if someone said she didn't find handsome white men?

- The reason why I like more black girls is because their body is more and more beautifully (IMO) musculated than others. It has no racism behind. The few asian or latino girls I see, who are well musculated and with nice curves, I like them the same.

I AM NOT bashing any race by saying which kind of girls I like aesthetically speaking and which I don't. This is what I mean by the ABUSE of PC. I still don't know why I have to defend myself and explain something that is NOT wrong, the least comment I (or anyone) makes on any race related issue. Somebody thinks you say somethind that could be interpreted (by him/her)as some racist thought perhaps crossed your mind, ..., and there you go, an absolutely non-racist person having to prove it against with all the dogs behind (no offense, me being the fox).

I know men who prefer asian girls just because of the opposite, their slim, younger appeareance that resemble teenagers. Are they to blame for liking them? Can they comment they like those? Or they'll be blamerd for that? What kind of Big Brother world are you trying to construct?

I get part of your point. Although I told my friend, and explained to him why I don't use to like some girls, I hadn't been able to mention his eyes or nose because he is so proud of being white that it could affect severely our relationship. However, I have another peruvian friend, who is a girl, and she is almost as close friend. She has got the usual latino look, and I told her just the same, and had to explain it too. Between friends, you talk these things!

She understood, and didn't feel offended. She prefers blondes and I don't feel offended, for God's sake!

I know there are several members of the boards of ethnnias other than white, and I was positive you'd read this, but I still can't see why any of them should feel insulted. In fact, the phrase you mention was a clarification precisely for people to know that I meant there was nothing wrong with colour, that, in my case, as an example, it's just a matter of aesthetics, just as some girls like blondes reds or brunette men. That otherwise, I see that unimportant, and I believe that unless you procede from a super-sensibilized society on racial matters (which is what I think), such obssesion with chasing phantom SUPPOSED racists is unhealthy.

I don't have hatred for any of those community, BTW.

Miche, everyone in this forum has expressed many times what they liek or dislike in multitude of matters, and I have as much right to express myself as you to express your discrepance.

I really don't have anything against you, but the same my points of view disgust you, the PC policy you are one of the maximum representatives in the forum makes me sick, because it's nothing but censorship and bullying and unfairly accusing those who disagree with you.

You pretend that races don't exist. If ity were for you nobody would ever speak of races.

But like it or not, races DO exist. We aren't better than any other because of that, but we are DIFFERENT and denying it is living in another world, like pretending that we are all the same tall or rich or wise.

Talking races has nothing bad in it in case you don't bash them.

Your message is, like the previous ones on this, ABSOLUTELY unfair.

Wow, Incognito,

Your Peruvian friends are so lucky to have a friend like you. Only the most civilized person would let their friend know that they do not like how they look. Yes, I agree that sometimes people can take the concept of PC too far. But, in general being PC simply means acting in a refined and cultured manner. And most importantly, being sensitive to the feelings of others. But, it is obvious that is too much to ask from you.

Peruvian parties in Madrid Spain good lord what is this world coming too. Then again a Peruvian freind I have Mexican freinds I see nothing wrong with them nor with them being Mexican but I understand that they are not my people and that I cannot rely on them for taking care of my people. In other words a Peruvian can be a good freind of course as I have Indian/mestizo freinds and some of them are decent people which deserve respect. However I am not satasfied with the massive latin American immigration into Spain and probably never will be of course that is all old news from me for you guys.

No its worth something im proud of what I am to say that it is worth nothing is like saying that heritage and traditions is garbage. But then you could one of those liberal communist ETA supporting wackos just kidding. :p

I've never spent any particular amount of time "considering" the features of my friends to determine if they're from one origin or another. I just don't care. I judge them on the kind of people they are, and there it ends.

I hate obsessions with "racial purity," because it smacks of the Hitler mentality of an arian race.

Wolf

I'be been reading this forum for some time but i have never posted anything; until i saw this thread and had the urge to write. Ok, i am Spaniard (from Barcelona though, sorry!) and my view on the racism thing in Madrid, and for that matter in Spain is the following:

Saying that the nationals of some particular country are racist is actually a racist statement. Is there racism in Spain? Sure there is. It's not me to decide if it is more or less than in some other country. That would be a really childish way of ignoring the problem. I've lived in and travelled to many places and i think that racist attitudes exist everywhere. What i think is different is how sensitive and aware of their own racist attitudes citizens of different countries are. And i believe it is here where the whole racism in Spain thing lies in.

We've been a pretty homogeneous country for the last five centuries. Some people go around saying how peaceful and tolerant Spain was when jews and moors coexisted in the XIVth century. Whatever; that was till they got expelled.

For the last 15 years we have been receiving immigration from all over the world. That's a new thing in Spain. Foreigners amount now for roughly the 10% of the population. So, Spaniards are historically not used to diversity in our own neighborhoods, and now we must start to get used to the new situation.

What i am trying to say it is that due to the traditional lack of exposure to different races, religions, etc., we do not perceive what might be a racist attitude or comment as racist, when it actually is. I've read people trying to explain why the monkey sounds in the Spain-England football match were not actually racist. Well, there is not excuse, that was a racist behaviour.

Briefly, i am sorry if that offends some of the regulars here, but i think some "political correctness" in Spain would be just fine. It is just about being aware of your words when dealing with others, cause what is not offensive for you might be to the other. Call it politeness if you want.

Well this is only my opinion; i am not writing on behalf of the Spaniards, and none of the Spaniards writing here are (absolutely NOT the ones writing from Southern California).

Joselito

Excellent post, Joselito.

Joselito,

Well said!

Wolf