Tonylionni...

Gee, you've lived in Madrid, what, a WHOLE 5 MONTHS? I guess that makes you the expert. Funny, I've been here 4 years next week, and haven't even scratched the surface. . .

Yes there are racists here, but there are really good, fine people here too. As in the USA there are a few jerks too. The main thing is not to become one yourself! Currently I have a war of opinions going with Gazpacho, but I still respect him (and I think he respects me) even if we are 180 degrees apart politically.

If I were you I would think long and hard about "dissing" MadridMan, your host. While he is the epitome of civility, he has about 5,000 loyal board members (I guess minus 2, counting Pauly) who would be ready to defend him against you or anyone else (not that he needs it). State your opinions, but keep it civil and you will be fine.

I have the pleasure of knowing MM, and you just won't find a more "stand up" person. He has put together one of the best sites on the www, which has benefited many, many people (including, apparently, yourself), and, speaking as a webmaster and former BBS boardmaster (for Artsnet with the Western States Arts Federation, of which I was the Information Services Manager) from a time before there was an internet, that is no small accomplishment.

I believe Tonylionni is no longer with us!

Just saw the good news on another obnoxious post by him. Where's the party going to be held?

Well, like it or not, those are the statistics about VIOLENT crime in Spain, of course in order to know them one must read the paper or watch tv and that would mean being able to understand/read in Spanish....or English for that matter, reasonably well, and apparently that's a problem for some....

All this nonsense (also on the "Spanish tv is bad" thread) is starting to remind me a little of a hotel review I read last week on Tripadvisor.com. My God! it made me so angry and so sad to think such ignorant people exist! It was a British citizen supposedly reviewing a nice four-star hotel somewhere in Almeria, if I remember correctly, and going on and on complaining about how "too many Spanish children everywhere" had ruined their entire holidays. His kids could never use the pools because there were too many Spanish kids there speaking Spanish, etc....(I mean did they think they had the coodies, or was this person so stupid he thought his own kids being exposed to a language other than English would turn them into " horrible aliens" as well?).

He went on to say something along the lines of: "Thankfully there was this English pub called **whatever** in town that was a true haven for us and the only thing worthwhile out of our 10-day vacation...."

I mean, this goes to show you that sadly NOT EVERYONE in this planet is fit (intellectually) to leave their couches and bars/joints around the corner, let alone travel abroad, doesn't it?
I was specially aggravated because he targetted kids so much . What kind of kids should you mostly expect to encounter when you travel to THEIR country, you dumbass?!!! I wonder how well behaved his own children were with that kind of education (poor them, though!), and why/if the kids from The Netherlands, Germany etc....that surely were there too didn't bother him/them? (maybe they couldn't even tell the difference)
It's just so unfair! How would he feel if somebody stated that; too many British drunks can spoil part of some people's holidays in the Mediterranean coast of Spain...instead of all the drunks from wherever?

Of course all the other reviews were favourable, which didn't surprise me....This guy never once mentioned the food, the beach, etc....like the others did (of course his family must have spent hours eating pub grub and watching Sky tv on the 'telly')
Nobody needs to "welcome" that kind of tourism....

I'm so sorry I don't remember the details of the hotel so I could quote and post this man's exact words....and SORRY I had to vent about this! :o

pim wrote WOW! And VENT you DID!! hehehe...

Just goes to show that "Travel" means different things to different people. Some Travel in order to experience different cultures and LEARN something about other parts of the world. OTHERS travel to be pampered, catered to, and have the world served to them on a silver platter. The latter is fine in some cases, if you're going to a spa, for example, but one should also respect his surroundings and the people serving him and realize he's a visitor there - NOT THE OWNER.

So no. Clearly ALL SPANIARDS ARE NOT RACISTS. I think most fair-minded people realize this. Those who don't can stay home and watch their home-based situation comedies and "reality shows" (which are SO UNREAL it's not even funny - what a misnomer <where's my dictionary?>).

Saludos, MadridMan (a little "vent" for me, please. And do serve it on a silver platter, won't you, love? hehehe..)

Apparently the guy was upset that he wasn't made CEO of a Spanish company just because he showed up speaking English. Maybe he found out he had to work his way up the ladder like everyone else.

Its amazing how people will throw out the race card so willingly if they feel they wanted more and didn't get it, even if they are unqualified.

Now... that is not a racist comment, because my guess is he's Anglo. It takes all kinds to make the world go round.... unfortunately.

Yes, there is racism in Spain. There is everywhere. No nation is exempt from it existing. His attempt to categorize all Spaniards as racists is stupid. Its also sour grapes for his own ineptness.

Wolf

At least the guy's kids got a little exposure to other children (I guess, and were probably wishing they were back with the other kids when the family was sequestered in the pub!). Maybe the children will remember and not end up like their father. I think these types generally are self-regulating: they are so miserable away from home that they soon give up and hopefully stay in their own neighborhoods, hopefully never to leave again.

And amigo Wolf, I don't think anyone could take your comment as being racist. There's nothing in it about race!

Pim and Madridman, I totally agree! It reminds me of last year when I had a few days alone in Greece after my friends left, and I went to some random island and (accidentally) stayed in this area full of package tourists. They were so loud and drunk and every restaurant on the road catered to American and British tourists. It was a little depressing so I went to another (way less touristy) town a few kms away for the evening. I watched some greek singers and sat outside with a beer and talked to my Greek waiter for a few hours after he got off his shift. I learned all about the history of the island, an earthquake, how they live, etc. It was so much fun. I love to get drunk and be crazy as much as the next person but it was such a nice surprise to hang out with a real Greek person and learn something. It was a nice memory!

OK, now I'm getting way off the original topic. How do I tie it in - people aren't racist if you stop acting like a tourist and give them a chance?

Chicagoan wrote: Nice save. hehehe...

Pim and Chicagoan:

There's many people that travel just as if they were visiting a theme park. That's Ok, I mean, I've got nothing against that kind of travelling.

But I think they are missing the greatest pleasure, and one of the most wonderful and enrichening experiences that a human being could have in his/her life: knowing other cultures, meeting other people, getting a wider view of the world and the mankind, getting a little free from your own country's stereotypes, and becoming maybe a little better individual.

I can't understand some things: is someone worried because his children interact with non-english speaking children? Man, that could be a immensely precious and unforgetable experience for you children! It's as simple as: if you children know a little bit of other cultures, if they play with other language/country/race/planet children, that helps them to grow up and getting smarter, self-confident... for a kid, a travel is a treasure for the rest of the lifetime.

Each travel is a great, unpayable chance in your life. But, you know, there are, for example, those "little Britains" along the spanish coast, where you can't manage if you don't speak english, and which many of its inhabitants don't seem to want to manage in spanish and deal with natives. It's OK with me, it's just an option, I don't want to be critic. But, "tío", it's a pity. Such a precious opportunity to live, to experience, to learn.

I can't figure myself living in Nigeria but never going out my little spanish ghetto with spanish food, spanish drinks, spanish partys, spanish friends, and without caring about the local people, the local history, the local culture.
I can't figure myself living in Chicago and eating every single day a paella in a spanish restaurant, and just talking to the spaniards there, and worried because -you know- in the Chicago pool every child speaks english, and my poor poor little spaniards can't play with them because of the language. ("Además", when did you hear that children need a common idiom to play together?).

That's all, I just wanted to say that travelling without trying to learn, is like going to the Niagara Falls and sitting down to read the newspaper:

-"Wow, so you were at the Niagara Falls."
-"Yeah"
-"And, did you enjoy the experience?"
-"mm.. yes, it was OK, I readed the newspaper. It was ok. A good newspaper.".
-"But, did you see the falls?"
-"The.. what??... I was trying to read my newspaper but there was a lot of noise, and it was raining hard!".

Yes, some people seems to care only about the noise.