I, personally, LOVE the noise! Especially SPANISH noise. I listen to Spanish music and watch Spanish TV, rent Almodovar movies, sometimes just to soak up the ambience in the background and to hear a madrileno accent. And I don't think I'm much different than many of the board members on here. I think, that no matter where you go, as a traveller, the noises that you hear is a large part of the experience.
Oh, and the Spanish aren't racist.

Hello everyone,

I had to answer to tonylionni!!! I’m from Spain and I have to tell you that you have gone a little too far with your comment.
”The problem with the racist PURITAN Spanish is that they dont like to mix with people other than other spaniards......” What kind of people had you meet??? Please, get to know us and then give your opinion. I had live in US for some years, and believe me I mixed with people from all over the world.
”The Racist francista government wont give working papers to non Eu Citizens which mostly affects Latin americans, they have no right to Paro or other benefits.....”
“Francista” doesn’t exist. I don’t know if you mean fascista or franquismo. Anyway, allow me to explain a couple of things to you.
First, correct me if I’m wrong, but as much as I know, is a EU law not to give working papers to non EU citizens.
I’m not sure if you understand what is the “paro”. In order to get paro you have to work for some time and at the same time pay taxes. Why a person that doesn’t pay taxes should have paro (either Spanish or immigrant)?. We can cut out the pensions of the retirement and give that money to the immigrants, our elders will die of starvation. But that way we will not be racist.
”There is a problem here in Madrid with the attitude of Madrileños in relation with anyything thats different and has a non spanish way of thinking or behaving at times living here is like living in a dictator regime, “ Are you talking about Madrid in Spain??? Definitively we are living in two different cities.
Anyway, I’ll be more than glad to meet you and show you how wrong you are. On the other hand I will strongly recommend you to check your behaviour towards others, maybe, only maybe, that’s the problem.
Ufff, I feel a lot better now!
Take care

Uff! OK, I REALLY hope this post is not misinterpreted by non-Spaniards since I'm pretty sure Spanish folks will instantly relate and know what I'm talking about; however, being aware as I am that other people come from various different places regarding these issues....mmmm

OK, I strongly believe what many times what foreigners interpret as racism on our part is mere ingenuousness, mixed with downright lack of PCness (compared to other countries), with a traditional lack of exposure, if you will, to races other than our own (until very recent decades, that is), often even, with a more natural or less twisted approach to things, I dare say. I can give two examples that will hopefully illustrate what I'm trying to convey much better than any reasoning I may express:

Two days ago a female athlete that has won the first and, for now! only medal for Spain in these Olympics was being interviewed on tv; she was explaining how she had "lived" the competition and she said something like:
"I do know I had competed against (whomever, another European) before.... but I'm not too sure I have ever done it against So-and-so (from China), since, you know, they all look (refering to Asians as a whole, supposedly) pretty much alike...."
Now, being a Spaniard I KNOW the woman's intentions weren't....heck, she had no intentions!, she was expressing herself in a very naïve way, that's all. Of course I'm not saying Asian people shouldn't be offended upon hearing this, it's up to each individual to judge if they were deliberately beeing referred to in a derogatory way, though I assure you, it's not the case. So blame her (and many of us) for ignoring how to recognize and differentiate between peoples and failing to tell Asian people appart easily sometimes....guilty! :o

2nd. example:
I distinctly remember (former¿?) board member LIM, Lost in Madrid (he is missed!), relating how he had gone to see the 'Cabalgata de los Reyes Magos' (The parade of the 3 Wise Men) one January 5th. in Madrid and had been shocked and disgusted to see a white person with his face painted dark impersonating King Baltasar.
Sorry but that was his Northamerican mentality making conclusions when in reality, the fact had nothing to do with racism, it's simply what has traditionally been done for as long as the Parades have taken place that day in every Spanish major city. We're talking back when there were NO black people living in this country other than some ambassador or consul from some African nation and some US military men living at the, now extinct, military bases....Yes, in the future surely more and more true black fellows will "play" the black king, but for now, usually it's celebrities, sports people, artists or politicians who get to represent the kings on the Parades and, for the moment, there just aren't many coloured in Spain (I know some soccer players have done it), but the paint IS NOT in any way meant to insult, criticize or offend anyone; just part of a disguise..

Having said this; of course there is blatant racism in Spain sometimes as everywhere else in the world probably.

I agree in a 100%.

The King Baltasar's example is simply perfect. Don't judge the facts if you don't have the knowledge of its precedents. A painted white man playing King Baltasar is not a racist sarcasm. Until 15 or 20 years ago, there were not black people in Spain (in my whole neighbourhood there was one black family among several thousands, and they had a good relationship with their neighbours), so someone was needed to play Baltasar in every district, and, according to tradition, Baltasar is black. When you are a little child, you don't want to see three white Wise Men, because you just KNOW that King Baltasar is black.

Oh, what about that single black man in my neighborhood? Well, I have a picture of a little child (me) carried in arms by a true black King Baltasar. Of course, I didn't know that he was my neighbour (he was wearing a King's dress and crown: that was enough disguise for the little and not very smart child that I was), and I was happy because Baltasar was my favourite King (every child has his/her favourite) and I was with him.

One Reyes Magos parade, (I don't remember this but my parents told me the history), I was waving King Baltasar when I saw a piece of unpainted skin under his sleeve, and I became confused and disappointed. My parents tried to convince me that it was an optical illusion, but it seems that I got sad because King Baltasar was not King Baltasar, because he wasn't black.

As you see, that was a childhood of racism: I didn't like white Baltasars.

But, if you look at it wanting or expecting to see the black paint as a racist stuff, well, you'll probably see a racist stuff. Bu perhaps you won't see the truth.

Just apply this to many other things: maybe things have another explanation.

And, if you really met a true racist, well.. you can met "gilipollas" in Spain, the UK, the USA, China, Germany, Uruguay, Liberia and even on planet Mars, I guess. But first, check out if what you seeing is true racism.

I Think that this is something that is a part of the culture. Europe is not p.c.(politicall correct). Think about it. In europe if you are applying for a job They want your picture. The next thing is that many jobs say that ages 18 to 40 ages will be considered. These are things that are not permitted in the united states. In an interview they are not even supposd ask your religion (in the u.s.). Spain and europe are a little behind.
As for los reyes Magos. I went too the event in barcelona last year. They used a black person as the king which was good.
In the past 20's 30's black face was put on by whites in the usa to make fun of blacks in the theatre.It was very offensive. Some of the tile work on certain buildings in spain have a portrayal of blacks that would be unacceptable in the U.S. Many spaniards may say or do things, but not realize that it is racist because it is a part of the culture. I don't think that these things will change until people of different ethnicities are in the spanish government. By the way pim no one says coloured anymore.

Umm, how can someone be a racist if his intention is not to denigrate other due to his race? Would someone be a racist just because in other country his attitude may be considered racist (no matter his intention)?

Fernando

I completely agree with Matador...Europe is going thru what the US did in the 50s- 70S...immigration there is a fairly new and most people don't know how to deal with it. There are still problems in the US in terms of dealing with this issue, but I think Americans are a little more sensitive/compassionate (perhaps due to the civil rights movement.) My experiences in Spain have been generally good. However, I was treated a little differently in Granada. I walked into a salon to get your run of the mill pedicure and when I walked in all of the girls behind the counter kept staring at me negatively. I had no idea why. Perhaps because I didn't look like them? Or because they heard my mexican accent? Or did my striking beauty make them jealous??? the latter is totally a joke! Who knows but it was wierd. NOw i know what it was like to be black in the 50s.

Mar, do you have an idea of how many american blacks are in Spain? Estimation: Less than 500 (between a population of 42 millions).

It is much more probably that they stared at you due to curiousity and surprise than racism...

I have never seen an american black here, only in the States. Yes, we have now many blacks in Spain, but they are from Senegal, Liberia,... and they are very very poor (usually they have entered Spain illegaly) so they don't usually go to salons...

It is almost always for the same reason: judging one country's behaving by tacit rules of another country.

I don't say they should have stared at you (it is obviously not polite) but I really think you missjudged their intentions.

I have to make real efforts not to stare at a black when I see one. In the States it is a large minority (30% perhaps?), here they are a tiny minority (probably less than 1%) and ten years ago there were no blacks at all in Spain (I don't remember seeing a black until I was 12 years-old or so).

Fernando

Mar, could it be that they noticed the nopal stuck to your forhead? Or the China-poblana dress you were wearing? Just kidding! I am making an assumption you are Mexican-American like myself from your post.

Could it be by the way you were dressed, that they new you were a foreigner? I know that can attract attention. I know when I was in Mexico City, I go a lot of stares for wearing shorts. It must have been my sexy legs! lol Or,...and I don't mean to sound sexist, but maybe its because you are foreign women. I have seen women more critical of another women for no other reason than she is different from their idea of what a women should be like. Maybe, you were just too much competition?

Well, we (me and my partner) will be going to Spain for the first time in 23 days...and counting (I am practically jumping out of my skin at the excitement). I truly feel that we will not have any problems. I would probably be more apprehensive traveling in parts of the South of the good ole US of A, then I would in Europe. No offense intended to those of you who live in the South. Its just my opinion.

BTW Madrid Man, thanks for being so diligent in ousting those troublemakers like Tony. Some people just have a bad attitude towards life, and perpetuate their own negative experiences. Good riddens!

José Luis "Louie"

Actually Spaniards look at African-American and Anglos much the same when they see us on the streets in Spain. We dress differently, and they notice the difference immediately, and it draws attention to the fact that we are "tourists."

I think reading anything else into the issue, and suggesting that Spaniards are racists because of Baltazar, or any other isolated situation that isn't PC in the US is reaching for straws to find reasons to call them racist.

Read PIM's post carefully. She explained everything quite well related to the fact that Spaniards don't spend 24 hours a day trying to be politically correct.

I have very large feet, and when I would sit on benches in busy parks, people would stare at my feet. In fact I had one old couple that stopped walking, and came back to take a second look. Then they went on their way. Were they prejudiced against me because of my feet? Not at all. They were curious. In fact they asked me how I could possibly find shoes to wear. I told them that in the US it was difficult, but they were available in better stores. They just smiled and told us to have a nice day, they continued their walk.

I certainly am not going to say "Spaniards are bigots when it comes to large feet." That would be absurd.

Anyway, there is always a degree of prejudice anywhere you go. Even in the US you hear people comment that we have to "stop immigration" because these damned foreigners are taking up all the jobs. That's prejudice in its own right, but it doesn't state anything about color of skin, its just a preference that immigration cease. That's the case in Spain too, where jobs aren't as plentiful as the people would like. But don't take that as being a racist comment, it's a concern for self betterment and you hear it anywhere you go.

Anyway, that's my take on the issue.

Wolf