AMEN Spaniard!

Ignacio wrote: How true! I'd say the majority of Americans (remember, most Americans are considered "stupid" - according to that silly quiz we've all been taking here) believe that Spaniards are naturally dark or olive-skin-colored. I hear this a lot from friends.

Saludos, MadridMan

"brown northern african arab race"-ignacio

HAHHAHAHA you don't make it sound very appealing!

First of all sorry for my english I know is horrible .

I wanna say somethings about all your posts:

1.- ¿ What means the discussion of if spaniard people is more or less white than other europeans to say spain is more or less european?
That discussion have no sense today cause inmigration in all first world have made that people mix theyselves with people from other countries.
Is Cher american??? ......I say yes .....Is Cher White? ( her father is from Siria)....well I don.t know but people in USA say Cher is White , but most important : is Cher less american than Robert Redford ( extremly blonde) .... I think no.
In 2002 hundreds of persons from each country of Europe ( bornt in their country and with parents and grandfathers from their country) were analyzed genetically for know witch was exactly the mix adn and race of all europeans countries .

The study say more or less that spaniards , portuguese and italians ( except north) were a mix like that: 65% north african - 35% north european , Greece 60 NA , 30 NE -10 Asiatic .
France 20 NA-80NE , Germany 95-5 .
Well.....then........ Witch is more European???.... Is more European Germany who is 95-5 than Italy who is 35-65???.
Rome invented the Republic , developed the ingeniery , the civil rights and laws .
Greece developed the pholosohpy , science , democracy , history and clasic architecture .

If u wanna know why doctors in sociology say that occidental world is a Greco-Latin-Cristian world ask yourself what in your life is G.L.C and what is from the other tribes or countries that ruled the world ( germanics , Celtics , Muslims , Chinese Zulus , Aztecs , Persas , Indians ,etc , etc....)
Let.s gonna see exemples:
Tongues more importants of world:
French , Spanish , French , Italian , English ( yes english , you must think that english is not a latin tongue but is so influented but latin in the first century and by french that a english spoken person could not literally spaek if he forgot the latin words of his language:
Ex- Have , is , right , mountain , paper , fire , new , person , ( all those are basic worlds , and are almost thousands and thousands in english)

The Rights and Laws:
ALL LAW SISTEMS in ALMOST ALL WORLD are based in Roman classic Right.

Engeniery and Architecture:

The overwhelming majority of most important buildings in world are constructed bassed on mathematics and know -how of Greeks and Latins , others are simply copied ( classic and Neoclassic architecture , ex.- Whasington D.C.)

Philosophy and Religion:

The idea of soul is a mix of cristian religion and Plato world of ideas philosophy , you must thing that each church , and each tradition and each saturday of your life are marked with this ( even if you don.t believe in God).

We could continue , and continue and never end....
Then.....Is Jhon Tururro ( USA actor ) and dark haired and skinned son of italian inmigrants less american or more european?? , Is Pau Gasol ( spaniard ,nba star and blonde) less spaniard and more european????...
And I ask more :
Is Letizia Ortiz ( future queen of sapin and blue eyed and blonde ) more spaniard than Antonio Banderas ( dark hair and skin) .....I THINK NO.

Is Spain less european? YES IT IS.
In Europe people work from 9 to 5.
We work from 9 to 9.
In Europe people have a light lunch (at 12) and a big dinner (at 7PM).
We lunch late at night and dine at 3PM, not at midday.
In Europe it rains in summertime, Spain is dry and hot as hell in summertime.
We have crazy all night parties, while in Europe the party ends at 11PM.
We expend absurd ammounts of money in buying a house, while in Europe hiring is the main housing method.
Our diet has some unique components that make it...delicious!
May I continue?

You North Spaniards are not as pure as you think a place Pas Valleys in Asturias Northern Spain Has a higher genetic corelation with North Africa then the rest of Spain also simple because some one is dark does not mean they are mixed race their are people that 1/4 black and have blue eyes and light skin
your external phenotype has nothing to do with your internal geneotype.

If it were that way, I wouldn't be ashamed. Even the blondest norwegian has probably some other race blood drop.

However, I find your comment a great joke. Go work as a comedian.

I hate to revive a long dead thread, but I guess the question I would ask is, why does it matter if Spain is more or less european?

Is it "better" to be considered european? I think one thing that is hard to dispute is that Spain's history has been very different from the rest of Europe. Different is not bad. Different is just different.

You know, California and Texas have very different histories than Maine and Minnesota. Georgia and Virginia have different histories from New York and Pennsylvania. The cultures even today are different--the people aren't homogeneous, they don't think about things exactly the same way, but we consider them all to be americans. Not to say that every Southerner loves Yankees, or that people from other parts of the country don't think of California as the "land of fruits and nuts." The difference here in the US is that we don't consider them less "American" for the difference. Perhaps if Europe ever becomes truly unified, people will come to understand that differences can exist and even help to make the union stronger. It's kind of neat to live in a country where the land and the people can all be so different, and yet, still have that one common thread.

Though, I wonder if it could happen in Europe, where people all speak different languages? Would hate to lose the significant cultural contributions of all the different places that make up what we think of as Europe today. Would hate to see French people forced to speak German!

Anyway, prejudice against people from other places is just part of human nature. We have these same prejudices against the different parts of the US (ask most americans not from the South what they think of white southerners, and at some point the word "uneducated" or some variation on that theme is bound to enter the conversation, even though it isn't any more true there than in any other part of the country--lots of uneducated people to be found in California or Massachussetts, I assure you!) I think it is just part of human nature to want to feel superior to others. The key for Spain is just not to believe the things people say, and keep working for progress. California was once a poor state (long time ago...) but the people were hard working, and they were able to draw many people with an energy to achieve things, and now it is the 8th largest economy in the world. Most of that progress happened in the last 60 years. So, where a state or country might be now doesn't mean they will be in the same place in several years. Go Spain!

The question is that Europe is less spanish!!

Spain conquered Napoli Kingdom, Belgium, the Netherlands, even north Africa, América and Filipines, but only in the new world they speak spanish, so 400 million people do it now, so we can say the world is more spanish than french or german, but is a stupid joke, Spain is different of course, but I think Germany is different too, and France and Russia and Italy, all are different to others, and for sure we are more inclined to the spanish world, is easy to understand there are more cultural links with Argentina or Colombia than Germany or Poland, but geografically and politicaly we are europeans, we love democracy, freedom and peace who are the EU feelings, I don't care about ethnics, but for sure spanish mother tongue speakers are a huge amount of people who share the language as comunication vehicle, so we can understand Argentineans better than frenchs even when those are our neighbours and the other live in the other corner of the world, so the meaning isn't we are less Europeans, the meaning is that Argentineans are more Europeans, because they descent from Europeans as many Americans from North to South.

In other way we haven't amny links with Africa and their cultures, religion, and languages are mostly unknown for us (unfortunatelly, I think)

In the XVIII and XIX century we want to learn from the French, but Napoleon decided went to Spain to conquer us, the result for us was horrible we restored the Bourbon pest in the figure of Fernando VII the worst King we had ever, but French troops were cruel with population, killing civilians, women, kids, as a result they were defeat as the possibilities of Spain's development, so we were relegated from the european forums, later the romantic voyagers as Washington Irving painted one image far away from the reality, where only there was toreros, bandoleros and racial girls... typical topics from Spain who survived for centuries, IMO those topics didn't disturb us in the past because Spain was involved in American wars and they didn't care about European affairs until the end of the war against USA in 1898 in Cuba, Puerto Rico and Filipines, so when Spain lost the rest of their colonies, those terrible losts finished the Spanish empire and prompted Spanish people to search their new way, and in the XX century we suffered the consequences, some fragile kings, some dictators, two republicas since 1898 to 1978 when we decided give us a new opportunity to progress with the Constitución, 80 years later but finally we could decide our future freely...

What is Europe?. Spain less european because of their past in the Middle Age. In that moment of the history the Estates didnt exist. Only the Empires, and the Spain was a Empire mixed of different cultures (part of Italy, Netherland and France...) So, what is Europe?