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#53374 - 11/19/02 01:08 AM The Change in Spain
Quintos233 Offline

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 332
Loc: Southern California
Spain is changing and continues to change it's no longer as remote as it used to be and is being flooded by foreigners.Im not saying this is a "bad" or "good" thing but it is true that many foreigners especialy from (Britain) are setting up communities in Spain with bilingual schools etc. It seems as if Spain is changing I don't want to use the term invaded or colonized since that would be "offensive" but un like many other Spaniards my eyes are open and I see the truth and the truth is your more likely to hear every language but Spanish (in coastal regions)or "what ever the native language of the region is". Im not saying this is bad or good but it is happening and I regonise it im not going to pretend like nothing is happening the land is being bought and not by the natives I assure you.Im am not trying to start a thread fight I just wish to get a point across wich youd have to blind not to regonice.Any future post on the topic are appreciated if u believe the info is incorrect or what ever may have you. It seems as if un spoiled Spain can truly be found in Portugal.Portugal is like Spain ten yrs. ago before the prices sky rocketed because every one seemed to discovere Spain at once. saludos

#53375 - 11/19/02 07:16 AM Re: The Change in Spain
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 194
Welcome to globalisation. These are issues that many democracies have to contend with. The movement of money and the movemnt of people. I am taking a culture and society course here in Sevilla. The fact is, spaniards are having less and less children. In many households one or none. The social security system and the generous health benefits that are enjoyed here have to be paid by the young, but the population here is very old and many here are about to retire. I am surprised at how many old people live here in sevilla. Who is going to pay for this, enter immigration, thats how. In consideration of the large population of spain in proportion to immigrants the number here is small(the U.S. takes in one million people a year). Many immigrants look to go to france or england or Germany where the opportunities are greater.All I can tell you is to buy as much property as you can so that you may profit from what is happening here. Also many english and germans come here to retire, which is good for spain. I believe spanish is the official language in the constitution so if these people want to work here they will have to speak spanish. This weeks economist magazine has a good article on this subject. A survey given in france said More than 2/5 consider themselves slightly racist when it comes to imigration they said that france has way too many arabs. Get used to it,the world is changing.Look at Ireland there more people of irish descent in the united states(40 million) than in ireland (i believe its 4 million there i could be wrong)and right now we need the luck of the irish!

#53376 - 11/19/02 10:34 AM Re: The Change in Spain
Miguelito Offline

Registered: 01/23/01
Posts: 603
Although it's good for the economy of the region and for the retired English and German people that come here to live, because their incomes have a greater value and they enjoy a better clime, it has also some negative points, specially because many times these people make cultural isles, there's no cultural interchange between these communities and their Spanish neighbourghoods, they don't know each other.
I find very funny the campagne of the italian showman Leo Bassi who is trying that the german communitie of Mallorca, where he lives, join the mediterranean culture, and changes the game of golf (so hard for our dry environment) by the game of petanca, with a longer tradition here.
Another problem is the rising of price in the houses when people with more possibilities try to buy the same properties than the locals.
In general, I find possitive the communities of retired people here in our country, although I think the local authorities should work helping the cultural interchange (never Spanish cultural impossition)

#53377 - 11/19/02 11:26 AM Re: The Change in Spain
carmendeespana Offline

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 93
Loc: Madrid
What I don´t really like (in fact, I hate it) is that you can find ghettoes at beaches. There are beaches for German people, beaches for English people... I went last August to Gran Canaria and when we entered in a restaurant at Playa del Inglés, the waiter told us we were the first Spaniards in three months. And I believed him, because we walked a bit around and everybody looked at us like if we were the foreigners. They even had the prices in pounds. The same for Tenerife, they are building bigcondos complexes which they only sell to German people, advertising the price in Marks (that was two years ago).

What do you think of this?
Life is not fair, it is only fairer than death
William Golding

#53378 - 11/19/02 06:52 PM Re: The Change in Spain
Quintos233 Offline

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 332
Loc: Southern California
My grandma owns a house in valencia she had for a long time you used to be abel to walk for miles through the hills but now the path is blocked by a highway and those hills are covered by homes and bussiness they are even building more houses right in front of my grandmas she will no longer be abel to see the ocean from her window my cuisen has had many problems with the British population there they have often thrown garbage at him calling him a dirty Spaniard. any ways there you have it. saludos

#53379 - 11/20/02 03:47 PM Re: The Change in Spain
CaliBasco Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 1530
Loc: Idaho
I can't stand all of the foreigners who have flocked to Spain and destroyed it. It's despicable. Especially the British.


Anchovy Front

Ongi etorri!

#53380 - 11/20/02 04:19 PM Re: The Change in Spain
Espe3 Offline

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 511
Down boy! I agree with you, and I don't.

Let's see, Yes, its a shame that so many foreigners are going there and setting up communities and excluding the natives whose land they're in. Just as they would and do have a fit when its done in their home country- its not right.

However, to an extent, they do help Spain and the economy. The solution?! Well, although it may mean that not as many of them come over, I think that the Spanish government needs to step in! No way a Spaniard should be ostracized in their own home! frown I think they should prohibit such communities from being so exclusive. If you want to be in Spain, you at least have to try to assimilate somewhat with her- not chop her up into pieces!

So, regulate how many apts, buildings can be made for that purpose, and forbid the sale to be exclusive only for foreigners (the germans for example) That way they have to spread out a bit more and although they can just as easily get together and have neighbors from their home country, they now have to mingle a bit more. Everyone benefits this way. Also, I'm sorry, but we need to take some of the blame (this from Spanish me) if we didn't kill ourselves to bend over backwards to do flips to accomodate the English, germans ie: put everything in English or German for them to understand, well, then they'd HAVE to blend in a little bit more, at least try. I'm NOT saying for us to impose ourselves or culture on them, but when in Rome... we need to make sure they at least TRY. And we try! We meet half way, not let them run us over! Which is exactly what we're doing!

As for your grandmothers view... well Quintos, that's not only to do with the foreigners coming over... Check out La Manga- in murcia, a bit further south on Spain's east coast.. its not overrun by tourists (most of them are at the campo de golf!) but, it is by buildings! Poor planning, no regard for estetics.. just build build build! Its UGLY, like most of the popular beach towns, because the buildings are put up without rhyme or reason, or consideration for other people or buildings that are already there.Environmentally, they haphazard way we're building,.... well don't get me started there! But that's our fault. Again, rules, guidelines and laws need to be made to get the developers to pay more attention instead of building crap any old way they want!

When you come right down to it, sadly, its all about money frown and unfortunately, money rules frown frown But even so, some order needs to be made. Also, Spain is a fairly small country, and with all our good weather... it makes it a magnet for everthing! Unfortunately it can't blend or absorb as much foreign influence without loosing some of it identity- and before everyone starte screaming at me... for those who were there in the 80's and before, can see what I'm talking about! The fast food, the dress, even the way people talk, the violence, the vandalism... much more today then back then! Also with the language... incorporating more and more english words etc. The US is a big country, things like that affect us, but not as much, or as quickly as it does in a much smaller space.

Food for thought.

Q- you're young, you see a lot of what's going on. You seem to really care about your roots, be aware of what's going on, and do what you can to change it. Keep things positive. But realize that these things are 2 sided. Keep it in perspective and recoginze our part (the Spanish side of us) in it- its not as simple as pointing a finger at everyone else.


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