Wolf writes: Hitler didn't invade Spain because Spain was Neutral but Friendly and to move a modern Army across the Pyrenees would have cost too much time and effort. Maybe he read and was familiar with Chanson de Roland
During WW II, Luftwaffe pilots whose aircraft were shot down or who couldn't make it back to Nazi occupied territory were instructed to 'try for Spain.' Some were even familiar with Spanish airfields, having flown from them as members of the 'Condor Legion' during the Spanish Civil War. I know of one specific case in which some members of my wife's family cared for a Luftwaffe Officer and nursed him back to health after he had crash landed his aircraft near Alicante. During World War II, Franco Spain also allowed Nazi Germany to maintain at least one R&R 'resort' for German Officers.
Obligation??
The U.S. had (and continues to have) a Policy to support an existing lawfully constituted government, whether it be democraticaly elected or a Dictatorshio (like the Bautista regime in Cuba). Everyone knew the U.S. was in no position to 'take a side' in the Spanish Civil war. Supposing what Great Britain or would have done should that unlikely event have happened would be total conjecture!
BTW
Little has been written on this thread about the influence of the Catholic Church (maybe even the Vatican) on these events. The reason I mention this is the recent Canonization (Sainthood) of the founder of Opus Dei. Does this open up a whole new 'can of worms?'

Eddie,

The reason the US did have a moral obligation to support the Republic was as you said.... it was an elected government. As for taking a position in favor of the Republic, that would have been political, as most of us have indicated, not be a military option at the time. We weren't prepared for a war. "Everyone knew?" Who knew, and what was their reasoning for not acting politically? We'd already been doing it in Asia, and it was rankling the Japanese.

Hitler repeatedly asked Spain to mount an attack against Gibraltar. Franco wouldn't do it. He also warned Hitler that Spain wouldn't tolerate foreign soldiers on their soil. Hitler told Franco's emissaries he'd attack Gibraltar himself, but he didn't have enough troops, since so many were committed to the Russian front.

I don't get your point about the issue of German pilots. I believe we all agree that Spain offered sanctuary to these pilots. The Gestapo used Spain and Portugal as a kick-off point for intelligence operations.

I have little doubt the Catholic Church, and the Vatican, totally supported Franco. Considering the fact that the Pope "rejoiced over Spain's freedom" when the Republicans capitulated, I'd say it's a given. I too wonder if the newest canonization is going to open a can of worms.

Wolf

Brenan's The Spanish Labyrinth is excellent! And Booklady's suggested historical text is available at Boarders Books - I've leafed through it - fascinating!

Coincidentally, about a week before toddy opened this thread, I started reading Ernest Hemingway's For Whom the Bell Tolls. Decent book which takes place during Spain's Civil War in the mid/late 1930s. It's written from The Republic (anti-fascist/Franco) point of view and I'm finding that very very interesting, not really knowing much about it before. While I tend to shy away from anything political both in Spain and in my own country, knowing the political history (and present) of Spain helps me, I believe, to understand the people themselves and why they feel the way they do about certain issues.

I'm only about halfyway through the book but it's about an "American" who goes to Spain, after having spent a number of years there previously, to help The Republic. He falls in love (of course!) with a young Spanish girl (OF COURSE!!!! :p ) and joins a "band" to destroy certain KEY structures.

There's killing & violence, no real sex described, no bad words either. I find it funny when he writes "I obscenity in the milk of your fathers" when saying what someone said. This makes me giggle, knowing, as I do, the actual phrase in Spanish.

Anyway, that's all I have to say about Franco.. and it's only indirectly about Franco, this book, but it mentions him from time to time as well as what the Fascists were doing, what they stood for, and the civil war itself. Anyone wanting to know more can read this book by Hemingway, written in 1940, right after the end of the Spanish Civil War.

Also, on my local National Public Radio station this morning they had the piece that Toddy quoted (in his initial posting in this thread) about how some decendents of and/or survivors of the Spanish Civil War are asking the government to exhume (?) the murdered bodies in mass grave sites and give them proper burials.

My ladyfriend's mother, whom is about to turn 80 years old, still tells stories of how she and her family lived (read: hid) in a cave or caves in the mountains above Santander and could hear the bombings going on in the city down below. She was only a girl then and all "survivors" of the Civil War will soon be gone. What will that mean to Spain when there are no more people living to remember firsthand?

That's really all I have to say about Franco in this thread. I'll leave the details to those better informed than me.

Saludos, MadridMan

MadridMan,

Your question is a good one. What will happen, when there are no more survivors left? I've asked myself that question. I think that's why I've spent at least 1/3 of my time in researching the Spanish Civil War by talking to survivors from both sides. They are the only people who can tell us what really happened, from a personal point of view.

What totally surprised me was how many families were split by the war. I'd heard of it in the Civil War here in the US, but never heard about it from survivors. I listened as people talked about their families, and pointed out everyone if pictures, and what happened to them. Often, they'd skip past one or two people. "Who are these people?" I'd ask. "You don't want to know them. They are no longer family. They were on the other side." Families have been torn apart and remained that way since 1936. The pain just doesn't end.

Your Lady-friend's Mother is a treasure. She's seen the worst of it, and had to live with it, in fear not only for herself, but everyone she cared about. You should listen carefully to her stories. They will make you cry like I have, as people related the stories of their families to me. It doesn't matter if they were Republicans, Nationalists, or neutral. They all suffered the same.

Wolf

Wolf,
There was yet another reason why Franco refused to be part of an invasion of Gibraltar. Churchill had made it clear that any Spanish or German intrusion in Gibraltar would result in the Brits taking the Canary islands.

Shalom Y'all

Have you been to the canary Islands? with all the brits that are ther, you'd think they have!

As Dr. Frued and Wolf have so eloquently stated, Franco didn't refuse to co-operate with Hitler's plans in the Western Med out of some anti-nazi altruism: he simply weighed the chances for German victory against the US/UK and set his price for cooperation accordingly. Franco was always a pragmatist: accepting Axis aid when it suited him, and refusing to be held as 'owing' aid to the Axis when THEY needed it yet it was against his (and Spain's) interest. And, ultimately, it was probably in Spains's best interest that Franco's Phlangists won: A 'Republican' (aka 'Red'/'Socialist'/'Communist')Spain would not have been left in peace after WWII by the victorious Western Allies (aka 'Truman/'Eisenhower'). And Spain might have been left as weak and poor as Eastern Europe, rather than a nation able to accede to a market economy and pluralistic society.

Eddie mentions the Luftwaffe pilots escaping to Spain if necessary. An important fact. It wasn't just Germans that were helped. We have to remember that somewhere around 60,000 Jews were able to escape into Spain during WWII, and Franco didn't turn them over to the Germans. He allowed them to stay. When you compare it to Switzerland, where they took everything they had, and then turned them back over the Nazis. You have to give credit where credit is due.

I like this passage from Julius Caesar. It probably fits Franco in many ways. Shakespeare's words could have been written for him;

Wolf

Wolf, how true. My Library Science major professor had a great fondness for Spain and the Spanish people, especially the Basques. As a child of nine,he, his older brother and parents, Austrian Jews, fleeing the horror of Nazi concentration camps, managed to flee to France and were taken over the Pyrenees into Spain by Spanish Basques. They stayed in Spain until the end of the war, presumably repatriated as Sephardic Jews, and alive thanks to the kindness of the Spanish people, and of Francisco Franco.