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#53308 - 11/14/02 09:15 PM Re: Franco
Cristobo Carrín Offline

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 136
Loc: Asturias
Really, great. I never felt so clearly a cultural gap in my life. We live in different planets. Earth is mine, by the way.
Well, I`ll save my breath. It is not worth the pain.

#53309 - 11/14/02 10:01 PM Re: Franco
toddy Offline

Registered: 12/02/00
Posts: 303
Loc: USA
I can`t accept WWII is simply something like "Hitler was the devil, and the allies saved the world". That is not history, that is propaganda. WWI was a fight for the control of colonial territories, which brought out the end of German colonial adventures. And WWII was the struggle of a certain number of industrial powers to manage the second stage of colonialism
If you're implying that every war has it's interests; that is a very redundant simplistic argument. However, a better, more complex and accurate argument would be the idea of a dictator's rise to power based on the propagandized nationlistic fodder many young and old Germans ate up created an out of control war machine that was hell bent on war. To a certain degree, the allys were the bad guys, because they didn't fry the mother*^%* sooner. In my opinion, the US, for instance, came way too late to fight. However, in the end, there was a bad guy and his regime named Hitler and there were good guys aaaaand guess what GERMANY, FRANCE, AND ITALY BECAME DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES (over blood spilled by some of my relatives mind you) Wow, what a difference some good guys can make! laugh

#53310 - 11/15/02 05:58 AM Re: Franco
Cristobo Carrín Offline

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 136
Loc: Asturias
That is much better indeed. Good.
I admit that partially, of course you and Wolf are true: given the situation, say, in 1943, of course it was much better for France if the allies won the war, not Germany. For the Poles, the Hungarians, or the Czechs, I think it made no difference; nazi boot was not worse than Soviet one. Spaniards, too, didn`t care a damn, since no one bothered to kick that “bad guy” called Franco. Have you ever seen the pic where a smiling FDR hugs an equally happy Paquito? It is so the way, many of my countrymen bled all over Europe, rather fighting as partisans in France, or confined in Mauthausen, and it wasn`t worth a damn to bring democracy here, “mind you”. As to “every war has its interests”, I would rather say it is economical and political interests which causes wars. All the rest is just nice lies.

#53311 - 11/15/02 08:11 AM Re: Franco
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Madrid, Spain
As Cristobo says, I don't share most of his ideas and opinions but in this thread at least he has always tried to argue his opinions, have you Wolf and Toddy done it?

You may disagree Wolf and Toddy, but what you have said ends for me this thread. You seem to know all the answers to our problems. Great for you.


#53312 - 11/15/02 08:42 AM Re: Franco
MadridMan Offline

Executive Member

Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 10011
Loc: Madrid, Spain (was Columbus, O...
I think 5-pages of discussion is MORE than enough on this touchy, controversial, and disputed topic. It was a decent run but has reached its end. Thanks to all for their participation. smile

Saludos, MadridMan
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