Agree with you, caminante.
If you don´t take the first step, you´ll remain standing on the same spot for the rest of your life! So go for it, Brien!

Oh Brien, asking me what's bad about the US is asking me to open a can of worms! I hope I don't regret answering... Remember that these comments are based on my experiences only, and they may be very different if I lived in a different place. The US is awfully big, every area is different from the rest, and people are also different all over.

My complaints are really comparisons between my experiences here and my experiences in Spain (and Spain isn't perfect). I feel much more stress in the US. In the workplace, there's a lot more aggression and competition. Some Americans make their work their life, and the pressure they put on themselves and their colleagues is something I didn't feel in Spain. They wear me out just listening to them. Their search for power is something I don't care to be part of. The feeling I had in Spain was that people went about doing their own jobs, and when they went home, they forgot about work. And most (not all) did their jobs well! Socially, the same thing goes. Some Americans get all worked up about written invitations, written thank yous, the proper way to entertain, worrying about every little detail...(Thank God I got married in Spain! I wouldn't survive a wedding here!) In Spain, it was easier to just go out for a drink or tapas. Even entertaining at home was easier - more informal, less fancy expectations. The thing I really miss, though, is the sense of community. I live in the suburbs now, in a "chalet individual." No one too close. I have to take the car everywhere. My fault, I guess, but honestly, I didn't want to hear my neighbors through the walls any more (like I did in Spain). But the result is a strong feeling of disconnect from the people around me. I really miss public transportation. Even if you don't talk to the people in your bus or train, at least you're not alone. And I feel like there are more truly disturbed, dangerous people in the US. Maybe this is the fault of the media. Parents here won't let their kids out of their sight for fear of what may happen to them. Kids are totally safe in Spain, and everyone knows it. I want to be able to yell and wave my arms at a driver who does something really stupid and not fear for my life. I want to be able to walk through the countryside without the fear of stepping on private property and getting yelled at. So many Americans are so incredibly rude and so incredibly self-centered and demanding. Many - not all - Spaniards are more laid back - though there are plenty of rude Spaniards, too. As a teacher, I was automatically respected by parents in Spain. Here, the same respect isn't there. I have to prove I'm worthy first, for every single parent, every year.

Pretty awful generalizations, no? There are some things I like about the US. The opportunities to do anything I want without being looked at weirdly because I'm female is a big one. (This is getting better in Spain, but they're not in the same place as the US yet.) The ease of getting on the phone and getting anything at all arranged. I hate to admit it, but speaking my native language is less tiring than speaking my second language (actually, Spanish is my third or fourth). Life is much more complicated here, but at the same time, it's easier to deal with complications here than in Spain. (If only they weren't so time consuming!)

I think I might go hide now...

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: Diana ]

Diana,

Thanks for the interesting commentary. I think that you have hit the nail on the head. I really could not have said it any better myself. I think that Americans are driven by materialism. I am not saying that i do not like material things....Everyone does. But i don't care about driving a Lexus, owning a big house, a boat, all that stuff doesn't matter. I have lived in Minneapolis for several years and although this is supposed to be minnesota "nice", it really is not true. People in Minnesota are very hard to get to know and figure out. They are very standoffish. I'm not saying everyone is here but there are a large number of people here. I live in the city, not the suburbs, and i still feel the same things that you do. That really doesn't change. I guess all you can really do is try to be nice to everyone and realize that not everyone will be nice back to you. I know what you mean about public transit in Spain...i loved riding the Madrid Metro. It was fun and i felt very safe.

Well i guess that is all i have to say...

Viva Espana!

No need to hide, Diana! I think your post clearly shows the mix of emotions most of us deal with when thinking of life in the US and Spain. I spent a year in Madrid and really didn't want to come home. My father died unexpectedly (he was 46) and there was no way I could leave my mother and my younger sisters. I'm not certain, though, that I could have "made it" as a proper Spanish woman of that time. Franco was in power and the limitations on women were really hard for me to accept (no slacks except on Sundays, no single women outside of the gated doors of their homes after 9:30, etc.) My landlady was always sprinkling me with holy water and praying over me because I just couldn't behave properly! Still, there has always been something so special about Spain that I find myself drawn to it in a way that defies reason and explanation...unless, of course, you are part of MM's happily obsessed group There is a goodness to the bulk of the Spanish people that I've dealt with that makes me feel good about being human. Children are loved and protected and no one there would think me strange for including my children in my dinner and theater plans (unlike my American friends who brought in nannies as soon as they got back from the hospital!). I am still considered a nut because my family sits down to breakfast and dinner together and because I actually cook! Americans seem to have lost so much of our connectedness!

I am, of course, bothered by the smoking in Spain...partially because I have always found the smell disgusting and partially because I have lost family to lung cancer and emphysema. I have become fond of my privacy and don't miss the noises coming from the patio de luces. I like our conveniences, and I appreciate the fact that as a woman I am much freer in the U.S. than I would be anywhere else in the world.

That said, I also know that as a woman I am frequently at greater risk here than I would be in Spain! I don't read much about crime in Spain...I don't think rape or physical abuse is as common there, but I could be just fantasizing! My children are free and not free at the same time! Public transportation here is a joke! And I agree, as a teacher, that we have to earn respect on an individual basis.

When I go to Spain now, though, and see all the tagging on the walls (even in special, protected places like Toledo), I wonder if Spain is in danger of becoming like us? I don't think ALL that grafitti is coming from a small group of foreigners! It seems to me that a certain disrespect for the property of others is starting to worm its way into Spanish society...no doubt disguised as personal freedom! Our female tour guide spoke of wanting to have the opportunities American women have to work AND raise a family and how they would like male and female roles to change a bit so that women no longer were expected to be solely in charge of all things domestic. Some shops (El Corte Ingles is a biggie!) are open all day, meaning SOME folks are not going home for those leisurely meals with family. I'd like to think that the way of life I so admire will always be a part of Spain, but I just am not as sure about it as I used to be!

My dear friend who is married to a granadino and spends 9 months a year in the US and every summer in Granada tells me at the end of May she is burning to get to Spain, and at the end of August, she wants to be back in the States! I suspect those of us who love two countries will always wish we could be in both places at the same time!

Just digressing a little, maestra, I happened to remark that there was a lot of graffiti appearing on this coast too. I open the weekly newspaper and here it is... http://www.surinenglish.com/csolnews.html

Scroll down to the relevant piece and you see how the authorities here are acting. 2 million pesetas fine for their mummies and daddies to pick up. Ouch!

Anyway, like I said, it's just an aside.....

Brien, we're poor as church mice, but it's now nearly seven pm, it's Friday and the sun is burning our eyeballs out! I'm going for a few ice cold San Miguels to relax with my friends at the Friday Night Club. Why don't you join us? All nationalities accepted Tonight there will be English, Norwegians, Swedes, oh, did I mention the Spanish? Americans are thin on the ground though. Be a pioneer! Enjoy the weekend

Thanks for all the interesting chat on living in "our" dream country. My husband and I have often talked about retiring to the Costa del Sol, at first it was wait till the kids have finished school. Now it's wait until they are settled in their jobs and own homes! But what is really delaying us, is the fact my husband has a lot of medical problems and the thought of having to pay for numerous medications, although not cheap here in the UK, would cost us a small fortune in Spain. Has anyone any thoughts on this subject?

Anchovy what or where is the Friday Night Club?

Doesn't your UK medical insurance cover you in Gibraltar? I thought that's why so many retired 'Brits' live on the Costa del Sol (i.e., because of easy access to Gibraltar)

This morning while playing tennis one of my friend asked me why I love Madrid so much and why would I not move and live in Madrid. Well that was a very good question. You see I am actually from Germany, left there at 18 and got married to a GI (still married to the same man). Life took over, then 3Years ago I've traveled with a group to Spain (Seville-Cordoba-Toledo etc.) I've met some people whom I fell in love with and our friendship is still going strong as ever. I long to go back every chance I have. Life would be perfect if I had the money to travel anytime anywhere, I love where I live, but I am so lucky to have these Two worlds to love. Follow you dream, but always remember that you will also have to wake up again. Your happiness is always paid with sadness, so if you are willing to feel the pain then you deserve the ultimiate happiness that youre adventure bring to you. Do the things you need to do and NEVER look back and regret them. But if your are not happy now moving to Spain will not assure your happiness. Good luck and always keep on dreaming and then pick and choose which dreams to go to.

I also agree that you should persue your dream of living in Spain when you can (before the difficulties and responsabilities of life make it more complicated). I really appreciate all of what Diana said about life in the US versus life in Spain. I loved living in Madrid, and wish I could divide my time between the States and Spain! If only we won the lottery! I have always wanted to spend summers in Spain, but my mother's ill health prevented it. I dreamed of bringing my daughters to Spain and having them fall in love with the Spanish life. It was never possible, until this year. It is bittersweet that because my mom recently passed away, I can go to Spain again and have my girls live my dream. This summer we will be going to Spain for 6 weeks! I haven't been to Spain for that amount of time in 12 years! I still cannot believe that in 2 weeks we will be there! I am so fortunate to be a teacher and to have the summers off to take such an extensive trip. My husband can only be with us for a little over 2 weeks! But we plan on doing and seeing alot (going back to some of our favorite places!)We met in Madrid and are passionate about it! So, I rambled and rambled...but my thoughts are with you Brien, have fun and GO TO SPAIN!

[ 06-24-2001: Message edited by: esperanza ]

For me, it was very difficult to make the decision to move to Madrid. I lived in Sevilla with my family for a year when I was 12. It wasn't easy because I didn't know any Spanish and I went through major culture shock. After I graduated from high school I backpacked around Spain with a friend and I loved it! I vowed to return for a year or more so that I could become fluent in Spanish. Well, it's been over 10 years and I am now married (no kids, though). I tried many times to repress this dream, but it just kept popping up, until finally about a year and a half ago, at age 28, I just said to myself one day, "That's it, I am going to save up and go to Spain, alone if I have to." I've been waiting for my husband to go with me back to Spain for an extended stay, but I have accepted that he just does not want to. That's okay, I understand that the thought of just going over there like that scares him to death. He also doesn't have the same passion for Spain, probably because he has not been there yet.

So, I finally decided to just go for it and go without him for a few months to a year. Yes, it will be very difficult, but he is a teacher and he will be able to visit me on all of his vacations. He is going to go with me in August for a couple of weeks and then he will come back to the States so that he can start the school year, and I will stay in Madrid. So, I just want to say, to anyone who lives in Madrid now, I would like to get together and hang out. So, please e-mail and keep in touch! I will be arriving in Madrid August 21st.