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#5070 - 02/02/03 02:44 AM Re: Warning: Madrid's HOSTAL PLAYA
Mongo Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 03/17/01
Posts: 582
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Being the only other person on this thread to have actually stayed at Hostal Playa, I am very reluctant to admit that there were "cultural" (not racial) differences involved in what I saw and what I experienced. Different cultures have different standards. The French are indifferent and the Czechs are almost comatose. Madrileños have always been warm to me. Whatever the origins of the personnel (I have no idea), it was not good service compared to what I have have received in several dozen stays over almost 30 years traveling to Madrid.

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#5071 - 02/02/03 11:42 AM Re: Warning: Madrid's HOSTAL PLAYA
Cornelio Offline
Member

Registered: 10/28/01
Posts: 105
Loc: Dublin, CA
Hi DanielleD

You are relatively new to this board but there is one thing you will eventually realize about it. There are numerous Madrid apologists on this board who can't stand to read something negative about their precious city. I must say that this board has been very useful to me personally and I enjoy reading numerous post from knowledgeable Madrid travelers. However, if there is one criticism I have it is this: negative comments about Madrid seem to be swept under the rug and ignored as an aberration. In fact, when someone posts something negative, there is an immediate assumption that the incident is the fault of the poster because there is this belief that Madrid is so perfect. Well, in a perfect world, there would be no rudeness in Madrid or anywhere else for that matter.

Anyway, I appreciate you candor and I hope that this does not stop you from continuing to read and contribute to this board. More power to you!

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#5072 - 02/02/03 02:02 PM Re: Warning: Madrid's HOSTAL PLAYA
ERT Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 51
Well, you can say whatever you want to say. You can call HOSTAL PLAYA (915213844) and you will realize that both of the recepcionist are Southamericans (there is a man and I have also heard a woman and both of them have southamerican accent). Please call them if you don't believe it.

I don't want to put down southamericans but We have had a massive immigration in Madrid in the last 2 or 3 years and MANY southamericans are working as waitress, recepcionist in many restaurants, bars, hostels, hotels, quiting the jobs that Spaniards could have been doing and lowering the standards of the service. If the immigrants are willing to accept less salaries than the Spaniards, then the owners of the bar, hostels, restaurants prefer to choose an immigrant to do the job that a Spaniard used to do. In 10, 15 years tourism in Spain will be much less because the service will be much worst because most jobs will be occuped by immigrants.

I say this because I have also had not good treatment in hostels, or restaurants by Southamerican staff, bad treatment that I've never had in my life with Spanish staff in restaurants, bars or hostels. The problem is that they come from a different culture and import also their different behaviours.

And yes I'm against massive immigration, even it is legal. We madrileños have suffered many problems due to massive immigration one of them is much higher insecurity (Colombians killed 48 colombians in Madrid in the year 2001, almost 50% of all the murders in Madrid) and stealing in chalets, houses, has increased incredibly. Roberies in the streets with knives (moroccoans are the specialists in this), roberies to ancient Spaniards when they have just come out from the bank to get their pension paid (peruans, ecuatorians are colombians are specialist in this), rapes, and many other things are the benefits of Multiculturalism...

I just want to point out what many Spaniards say in private and don't want to say it in public because it will look like if you are racist or xenofobic, but the truth is the truth, and I wanted to share my version of this issue.

Many of you are Americans, so you can check who are the ones that comit most of the crimes, robberies and violent attacks in the US, and it is not precisely the white americans.

Accepting a minimum immigration is not a problem (for example 100.000 or 200.000 in Madrid) but accepting a massive immigration (700.000 immigrants in Madrid in just 3 years) is a huge problem that many don't want to see.

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#5073 - 02/02/03 04:41 PM Re: Warning: Madrid's HOSTAL PLAYA
barry Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 349
Loc: sóller, mallorca, spain
ERT. I'm not South American, but may I join all those from that continent in being rude to you? You deserve it.

PS I don't usually get this angry, not even in the ETA, Iraq debates

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#5074 - 02/02/03 04:50 PM Re: Warning: Madrid's HOSTAL PLAYA
miche_dup1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 181
Everyone at times experiences unfortunate incidents such as Daniella's, and though it's hard to shake oneself out of the bad feelings felt at that time, more often than not travelling offers great rewards and many happy memories.

I travel and have to do it the most economic way possible and that means cheap but reasonable hostels, food and low travelling costs. As a student I learnt very quickly that saving money means you get only what you pay for...and sometimes not even that, as Daniella has reported.
You can't let a horrible experience spoil things for you.
Hostel to me means a clean bed a place to shower and store your things. I don't want or expect any frills if i've decided not to pay for it and if a tv comes with it well ok. Not to mention the obvious - manners.

Treating others the way you would like to be treated goes a long way and is especially rewarding in a country like Spain.
I would say to anyone like ERT who ALWAYS experiences rudeness from people be they Spanish, Latin American,....is that there must be something in your own conduct, manner and general being that invokes repulsion and a desire to be as far away as possible from you.
ERT,..te falta un punto o que? your hatred, or whatever you choose to call it, towards Latin Americans obviously shows- you get what you give i'm afraid.
As for 'standards' being lowered...what the hell are you on about? Are you saying that Spanish hostel owners have low standards? Go to a five star Hotel or a magnificent Parador, I'm sure you'll receive the same reception, better still, stay at home!!

This is a perfect opportunity to show that Spain is not a perfect place, who said it was? No one and no where is perfect. With all it's imperfections i luurrve Spain- que viva Espana!!

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#5075 - 02/02/03 05:37 PM Re: Warning: Madrid's HOSTAL PLAYA
ERT Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 51
Ok. This is like a turistic website for people that like Spain so I won't go much deeper in this issue. Being not political correct doesn't make my arguments less true.

barry if you say I deserve it, SAY it also to DanielleD because I didn't do anything to the Southamerican staff as DanielleD didn't also do anything wrong to the Southamerican staff. I hope when a group of Moroccoans or Southamericans show a 10 cms knife to steal you in the street, someone say to you that you deserved it.
I hadn't say that I ALWAYS (thank you for your imagination miche!) experienced rudeness from people from Southamerica. I have just said that the only bad manners that I have had in restaurants or hostels have been from Southamerican staff, and as you can see in this post I'm not the only one. And BTW I don't hate LatinAMericans, I have some argentinian friends and from what they also tell me, they realize that some Southamerican nationalities in Spain are causing much conflict (for those that lived permanently in Spain in 1996 or 1997, you will realize that things now are not what they used to be when there were almost no immigrants at all in Madrid and that many people are upset about this massive immigration).

It is always the same thing. Whenever this issue comes to debat, and there are some people that don't say what is suppossed to be politically correct, there are always other people that start to put down the other accusing him of not being politically correct (ie, almost like calling him a Le Pen).

And I have come to this issue because MANY Spaniards have experience BAD situations with Latinamericans. Oh sorry...I'm not suppose to say these things... I will shut up.

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#5076 - 02/02/03 06:58 PM Re: Warning: Madrid's HOSTAL PLAYA
mecky Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/01
Posts: 91
Loc: US
ERT
I have read very much with interest your comments and opinions. Regardless if I like or ot like what you say, we have become a society where it is not really nice to be passionete about what we believe in unless it is politicially correct. Whenever I travel to Madrid-Zaragoza etc. etc. I am always escorted by my friends. And yes I hear a lot of what is being spoken among the locals. Madrid certainly has its problems just like any other city has. I for one appreciate you're sharing you're toughts on this form.

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#5077 - 02/03/03 11:40 AM Re: Warning: Madrid's HOSTAL PLAYA
Carole Chiaro Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 378
Loc: Danville, CA USA
I guess we must have been "lucky" because the nicest Colombian gal (treated like family) worked in a hostal restaurant where we stayed. Was that an aberration?

If you want to talk about surly service, I have not-so-fond memories of the staff in the paradores. Admittedly, that was some time ago. Hopefully, things have changed.

Yes, Madrid, too, must learn to accept a foreign influx. I think we're talking about a socio-economic element rather than national origin.

But rudeness--again, we see it too often. AND I'm especially amazed at how frequently it is targeted at young people. (In my estimation, young adult males get the worst of it.) My sons are respectful and I anticipate that they be treated with respect. I get steamed when they are treated rudely or suspiciously.

ERT--don't come to California!! Your ethnic/racial stereotypes would not be welcome here. --CC

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#5078 - 02/03/03 12:25 PM Re: Warning: Madrid's HOSTAL PLAYA
nevado Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/00
Posts: 620
You know, I was going to comment on the lack of service at the Paradors but I had hesitated because it was an isolated incident. I had a really rough time at the one in Alarcón (I saw your other post, Carole) but they were circumstances beyond the scope of most stays (I was married there and we had a dispute over a charge). The director was so rude (beyond belief, the day after my wedding!) and the entire Parador system was of no help. I still recommend Alarcón because it is a fantastic place and everyone but two employees were top notch.

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#5079 - 02/03/03 04:34 PM Re: Warning: Madrid's HOSTAL PLAYA
Marianpo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 32
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
This has certainly become a hot topic, mostly because of ERT's rantings.

Let's get real. Rude behavior is never excusable and Hostal Playa deserves to be blacklisted until it cleans up its act. I have found that every shop, hotel, business entity of any type, has a prevailing "culture" - which usually filters from the top down - that dictates what is tolerable. Hostal Playa's management seems to need a wake-up call.

On the other hand, racism and national stereotyping are, like all other generalizations, inaccurate as well as cruel. Even if, just for the sake of argument, 60 percent of Latin Americans were rude, absurd as that sounds to anyone who has actually traveled through the continent, that would still leave millions of people who were unfairly categorized.

Close to home, I have met a number of Spaniards prone to envy, and not one Dominican with that propensity. However, I would be foolish to expect most Spaniards to be envious, and much less to expect any particular Spaniard to harbor that trait. It's just bad science.

Would you like me to think and act toward you with the a priori conviction that you are an envious person, ERT?
_________________________
Marian

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