Sheba--If you read "Pagan Spain" please report back on your reactions. I'm sure they will be interesting.
Cantabene

What the h#@$? 'Tis a unique topic.

Hi miles! Are you referring to the subject of this thread or the question posed by cantabene? If the latter, cantabene is referring to a 1950s (?) Richard Wright book (a black man from the US who spent some time in Spain) called "Pagan Spain". See the above postings regarding this good book.

Saludos, MadridMan

SHEBA, I HAVE BEEN TO SPAIN TWICE. I WENT IN 1998 TO MADRID, BARCELONA AND MALLORCA. IN 1999 I WENT TO LONDON, ROME, AND MADRID.I AM BLACK AND I MUST SAY THAT I HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED MUCH NEGATIVITY IN SPAIN. LONDON WAS FUN AND THOUGH THE RACISM IS MORE SUBTLE, I BELIEVE THAT I WAS TREATED WITH RESPECT.I LOVED ROME AND I WAS SURPRISED AT THE AMOUNT OF AFRICANS LIVING THERE AND ALSO SOME DOMINICANS. I HAD ONE EXPERIENCE WITH A GENTLEMAN WHO WAS WALKING WITH HIS(IN ROME) GIRLFRIEND. AS I PASSED HIM HE BECAME VERY HOSTILE AND STARTED YELLING AT ME IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET. I WALKED AWAY. IN SPAIN MOST PEOPLE ARE CURIOUS ABOUT YOU. IN GENERAL I HAVE FOUND THAT THE CITIES ARE MORE TOLERANT. IN NO WAY SHOULD YOU BE SCARED HOWEVER.IT HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLE EXPERIENCE FOR ME. EUROPE IS JUST LIKE ANY OTHER PLACE. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL NOT LIKE YOU AND THERE ARE OTHERS THAT WILL. EUROPEANS ARE HONEST ABOUT IT. I HOPE TO SPEND A YEAR IN SPAIN IN A YEAR OR TWO .MADRID IS SO MUCH FUN. i HAVE MET SOME NICE PEOPLE THER AND IN BARCELONA. oF ALL COUNTRIES I HAVE BEEN TO IN EUROPE SO FAR SPAIN IS THE BEST. IT IS IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THE BEAUTY OF THE CITY YOU ARE IN DESPITE ITS' SHORTCOMINGS. I BELIEVE THAT THIS EXPERIENCE WILL OPEN UP YOUR WHOLE WORLD. P.S. IF YOU DECIDE TO GO CLUBBING JOY ESLAVA HAS A GOOD MIX OF PEOPLE AND MUSIC(TOP 40, RAP AND TECHNO).

If you say that that so called "gentleman" started yelling at you in the middle of the street, why do you refer to him as such? A gentleman he certainly is not. I think that word is incredibly overused. Just my opinion...

I agree Jen. And the same with the word "lady". And MATADOR, WHY DO YOU SHOUT SO?! (all caps = shouting) You're hurting my ears!

This last trip, last month, I saw more Africans than any other year so I'm sure people are less surprised to see black-skinned persons in Madrid and other cities in Spain.

Saludos, MadridMan

This is in response to Jen and Madrid man. My use of the word "gentleman" is a result of my upbringing. I was raised in a South American country(formerly a British Colony). I could have called the "gentleman" a racist pig or a dog , but that would mean that I am at his level. In England the term the honourable gentleman is used in parliament even if the statement that is being directed at the individual is positive or negative and that individual might the most hated person in the assembly.
P.S. I apologize for the caps but it is easier on my eyes.

I can't believe that freak started screaming at you.

Unfortunately, there are morons everywhere...

Matador, Your use of the word "gentleman" under rather dubiuous circumstances certainly marks you as a Gentleman!

[This message has been edited by Puna (edited 11-09-2000).]

Matador

Thank you for the great uplifting advice. You are right, you should always look at the beauty of a thing, not it's shortcomings.

I originally wrote because I was concerned from a lot of the news I was hearing about how black U.S. citizens, in particular women, were treated abroad. The news at the time was divided between the search's done at airports and a few articles I have read about black women traveling abroad being treated as if they were prostitutes by the natives.

This last news item was of particular interest to me, because there were reports of black women being spit on and targets for overt sexual harassment based off the reported influx of African immigrant women into European countries to sell their goods, so to speak, to a wealthier market.

The reports said that many of the attacks were provoked by a prevailing European thought (which is not that different from Americans, really) that African women brought disease, AIDs, to be specific, into their country.

So, I hope this clears up why I was, and still somewhat am, concerned. I don't have a high tolerance level when it comes to ignorance. I can get really violent really fast when physically provoked, so it was a concern for my overall bodily safety as well as my mental state.

I don't PLAN on anything like that happening, because I am pretty even-tempured otherwise, but I like to know what to expect which is exceedingly difficult when venues, and travel arrangements tend to lean toward educating a certain group of people.

I think this is why "gay friendly" travel articles, brochures, and guides were developed, which, by the way, I read because I figure that if they are gay-friendly, they will be a little more open to having someone like me go too. While traveling to New York, something I do quite often, I stay at all the gay friendly places and frequent all the gay friendly bars. I like acceptance I feel in those places and the people I meet.

This is not to say that people anywhere are outright racist or even subtly racist (as you mentioned you found in London) or that I have to plan my trip around places with people who are. My prevailing idea still is, why should I pay a lot of money, spend a lot of time, and spend a lot of energy to be somewhere where I am not welcome and to be treated like trash?

And in reply to the woman who had a daughter who is half Asian/ half black. I must say that I am happy to hear that your daughter is o.k. in Spain, but I certainly don't want the exoticized sexual attraction of men that your daughter is getting. That would not make me feel more comfortable anywhere. See above.

But thank you Matador. I would be interested to here more about where you stayed while in Madrid and if you are going back anytime soon. And I will definitely write down the name of the bar you gave.