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#44590 - 03/23/04 07:58 AM Re: Language question please help
El Boqueron Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/00
Posts: 421
Loc: UK
Surely the use of "rr" is not just a spelling convention? - it represents a different sound to "r". There's a difference in pronunciation between "perro" and "pero", "carro" and "caro" etc. The difference is perhaps more noticeable in some Spanish speakers than others, but it seems to be a real one.

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#44591 - 03/23/04 10:11 AM Re: Language question please help
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
This is our current alphabet:

a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,ll,m,n,ñ,o,p,q,r,s,t,u,v,w,x,y,z

The letter ch was "abolished" some years ago. We still have two differences with english alphabet: "ll" and "ñ".
Other letters, as k and w are rarely used. Only a few words in spanish have them (and they are usually of foreign origin).

The "r" and the "rr" are the same letter, but different phonema (is that the word?), that is, they are pronounced differently. A "r" is converted into a "rr" when, as Deibid sayed, it is between two vowels. Every word starting with a "r" is pronounced the same way as if it had an "rr" (example: rosa, perro).

As for adverbs ending in "-mente" are almost exactly the same than adverbs in english ending in -ly (quickly <=> rápidamente, calmly <=> calmadamente, perfectly <=> perfectamente).

Spanish words are usually made plural by adding a "-s" or a "-es" at the end. Example: perro => perros, persona => personas, español => españoles.

Fernando

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#44592 - 03/23/04 12:12 PM Re: Language question please help
kelar419 Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 541
Loc: Texas
Ive been studying Spanish phonetics for a couple years, so il try two explain the R, RR situation without confusing everybody even more rolleyes

Fernando is correct:
/r/ and the rr (/r/ with a line over it) are different phonemes (fonemas) in the Spanish language...when they are written that way in words. Phonemes are the minimal unit of sound that can change the meaning of the word. So like was said before, when written they are phonemes because: pero is not the same as perro. So yes, rr is a phoneme

However:
The rr sound is also produced when an /r/ is in the word inicial posistion orthografically
(ex: rosa) In that case, the rr sound that is produced when the word is spoken is not a phoneme. In this case its an alophone, a sound variant (alófono) of the phone /r/. Its not a phoneme because it doesnt change the meaning of the word.

Hope that helps, I love spanish phonetics, so any more questions: send them my way smile

Kelly
_________________________
"Ojos que no ven, corazón que no siente."

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#44593 - 03/24/04 01:00 AM Re: Language question please help
lasketchup Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 42
Thankyou very much everyone:) I learned more reading everyones replies then I ever have surfing the web. And thanks Fernando for listing the alphabet I will be sure to write it down in my notes and pratice with it. Very great explanations and now I don't feel so lost.

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