Booklady, I have some of the computer words that I could share with you, but many of the computer terms seem to be English based anyway! In addition, the words used in Spain regarding computers (including the word for computer) are different from those in the Americas! Perhaps some of our native speakers could help out here?

La Maestra...you are right and I agree with you 100% It's always best to speak any language correctly. Unfortunately many don't and I too hate hearing Spanish or English being butchered. One of my pet peeves in English writing is the apostrophy. People now a days place that damn thing anywhere an s appears without thinking about how to use it. I'll give you a great example...do you have Carl's Jr. fast food restaurants in Arizona? OK, so why is there an apostrophy in Carl? Is it trying to say Carl's Jr. Restaurant or Carl's Jr. Hamburgers? What belongs to Carl? It's not specific, it's just Carl's Jr.

I really don't know the specifics why Hispanic kids do so poorly in academics especially when I see them in schools mixed with a number of other ethnic kids in the same neighborhoods and income bracket. I don't believe that it is simply a language barrier. Im not including newly arrived kids from Latin American countries, although it is strikingly surprising to me that kids from these countries seem to do better in school than their American Latino cousins. My reasoning on this is because they weren't exposed to all the distractions kids have here in the US and possibly having it more difficult in their native country where you had to excel in order to be successful in life. I believe their parents stress education much more to these kids than the parents of our American kids. Why is it that Asian kids in the same social level with Latino kids do so much better in school? Because their parents stress education and expect them to do well in school. I went to school with many Asian kids and the majority did very well, outperfoming both white and hispanic kids. And, it wasn't because they were smarter per se, it was simply because their parents were strict regarding their schooling and made them hit the books! The same thing is true among Jewish kids. The typical response from a latino parent to his kid is...if you're not interested in school than you'd better find yourself a job! Where's the incentive to learn? I have two sons, 15 and 18yrs old. One will be attending college this fall and the other is doing OK in school. He could be doing better but he's a little lazy so I have to keep him on his toes. He is improving and Im noticing more interest in his school work. How did we get on the subject of education? Oh well, parents need to be more involved with their children's education than just sending off to school and let the teachers take care of it!

My best friend is of Spanish decent. His parents came to the US when they were in their twenties. They only speak Spanish at home. All three of their sons speak great Spanish. When they go to Spain everyone thinks they speak funny. Meanwhile they have learned the same structure and syntax the kids learned in Spain(my friend and his bros. also went to Spanish school run by Instituto Cervantes in New York). I think a lot of this discussion focuses on "they don't want to learn, they're not motivated". The basic idea of language does not just rest on the words and syntax that comprise it. Language is a constantly changing system that is comprised of not only words and syntax but also its interaction with other languages and words. The symbols the words signify change as well as the words. (Maybe I studied too much literary theory). They grew up in different places and although the education is practiaclly the same there are still major differences. Their separation from Spain and speaking to those in Spain transformed their Spanish into something different.
I minored in Spanish in college and saw many hispanic students that had trouble with grammar, pronunciation, etc. I thought it was a bit strange since they had obviously spoken it and used it daily. This must come from parental neglect I guess. You can't really expect a child of 3 or 4 years old to be motivated to preserve the integrity of his/her mother tongue. Once you pass 13 or 14 it becomes very hard to absorb a language (anyone knows this). I also wouldn't come down so heavy on those children or persons who don't feel this great need to speak their mother tongue. I mean really it's their decision let them be. I am Greek, Italian, Scottish and Irish. I don't speak Greek or Italian (or Gaelic ha!) I studied Spanish, go figure.
As far as Spanglish goes I thought it was just the substitution of English words for Spanish ones, or vice versa. Tengo que rellenar ese form para el banco. Other things like, Tengo que comprar unos Pampers I don't consider to be Spanglish. We say Pampers in English so using it in Spanish is fine. It's a product and that name can be used in all languages.

Just my opinion

Hola Mickey,
In your post you said: I asked La Maestra the same question, and she called that substitution, code switching from one language to the other.
That is very common among bi-lingual people. Here is her response:
Spanglish is when you take an English word and change it, here is Dr. Stavans example: The English words place and remember became placete and remembrearme These words are innovative but they are neither Spanish words nor English words they are Spanglish words.

One of the problems that linguists like Dr. Stavans is working on is the problem of one lexicon for the Spanglish words. What may make sense to Mexican-americans, may not make sense to Cuban-Americans. So there are variations of Spanglish among the Latino communities. Fascinanting topic!

Since a great deal of English, French, and Spanish, is rooted back to Latin, aren't we being a bit "lofty" in sticking our noses skyward at the thought that someone might "mix" languages in speech? Since we have English words that have Spanish & French roots, why would Spanish be "so unique" as to not have the same? Why would people who mixed them together be considered less than someone who doesn't?

If you want to "preserve" your language for yourself, look down your nose at those that speak it poorly. If you want more people to learn the language, and how to communicate in it, don't be stuffed shirts about it. The only one who looks like a fool is the stuffed shirt.

Sorry! Had to be said.

Wolf

Booklady writes: Exactly! But don't leave out the Puerto Ricans. Their 'Spanglish' is different from either the Mexican or the Cuban.

I've spoken with Hispanics who were functionally illiterate in both English and Spanish. They try to hide their English illiteracy by saying they spoke Spanish (or they were Spanish); but when push came to shove they weren't really competent in Spanish either. Enter Spanglish!

Wolf, Eddie's last paragraph points out the part of Spanglish that annoys me. Remember, now, that my job is to teach students to meet all the high standards that various politicos have established. If my students do not make the grade, I am the one held accountable. That means that language purity becomes a personal matter to me....one that I am indeed stuffy about! If the public would like for teachers NOT to worry about trivialities like competence in language, then I will happily pull the stuffing out .

I have had parents furious with me when I tried to improve the language skills of their children on the grounds that making them fluent in a language would be against their culture! Evidently they don't realize that knowing how to speak slang doesn't mean you can't also know how to speak "textbook."

I have no problem with using individual words of one language within another. "Tengo que comprar Pampers" is not Spanglish any more than "We had fajitas for dinner" is. That is using a valid word from one language in another.

I have problems with awful spelling and grammar, but that is true in both languages. "Gárrame el niño" bothers me because there is no such word as "garrar" and because if the speaker is thinking "agarrar," it is not the best word to use when you are dealing with a child . I have images of a kid being held by his neck like a chicken! Similarly, I don't want to see "muncho" or "ermano" in a student paper. But then, I get just as upset with "should of" in English! These are language problems that language teachers are responsible for dealing with, and these problems aren't spanglish either!

Spanglish is using a word that did not exist in the native language but sounds like one that does in the second language.(ex. lonche chequear, guáchelo) These words are used so often and by so many people that they now appear in the dictionary! The problem is that these words tend to be regional/ethnic and when these words become the only words the "wannabe Spanish speakers" know, they may be unable to communicate with the larger Spanish speaking population and are frequently unable to obtain bilingual jobs. Their spanglish is indeed a language, just like creole or ebonics or cockney English. But if that is all you know, you have limited yourself. If I weren't responsible for your education, I frankly couldn't care less. It is your choice, after all. BUT, since I AM in that position, it is my business to encourage correct language usage. Sorry for being so stuffy, Wolf, but that's my job!

la maestra,

I totally agree that the classroom requires a different acumen for Spanish than the Spanish learned - let's say - "on the street," without benefit of formally being taught. It's that outside area where the concept becomes murky, if for no other reason than the majority of people who come from Spanish speaking nations, as immigrants, into the U.S., do not have the benefit of being properly taught. It's those people that we have to understand, because they're the ones most likely to use Spanglish.

I just don't want us to think that anyone who doesn't speak a language fluently, or without erring in word choices, or has an accent, is unworthy. To me, they are just as viable in society as the person whose diction is perfect.

No offense intended to the teaching profession. I give credit to the teachers who pull their hair out day after day in a classroom, trying to get students to speak a language correctly.

Wolf

What about words such as 'chaval(a)' inf (chico,chica)? Isn't chaval a word the gitanos influenced into the Spanish language from the Roma language? amongst many others.

Yes, the Roma language has a dialect amongst Spanish Gipsies called caló, which keeps the basic words of the Roma language but mixed with the Spanish grammar.
The caló has introduced many words to Spanish like chaval, chungo, currar, camelar, chola ...
have a look here to know more.
http://www.andalucia.cc/comunidadgitana/idioma.htm