I'm moving to Spain in October. I put in for a couple of jobs, but I haven't heard anything back yet. I feel I'd better do it while I'm young and not tied down to a real job. I understand that I may be an illegal worker (not something I suffered 4 years of school for, but whatever). I'm not really after money or a career. I want to learn to speak Spanish in Spain. I want to know are there any English publications for foreigners that may have job listings available? Where can I look for jobs, b/c I'm coming up dry on the net.

One of my German friends was telling me that if you can prove you've worked for 3 months you can apply for residency in Spain. Is this true?

Hello there!

I don't approve of "illegal status" workers in Spain and don't really want it discussed here as a "HOW TO WORK ILLEGALLY IN SPAIN". This is probably also the reason you haven't found much about it on the internet because no one wants to be digitally associated with anyone who's an illegal worker for fear this is some kind of Federal STING operation, luring people to help you and then charging them as an accessory to the crime.

No. 2 years is the amount of time you have to prove you've been living in Spain to apply for residency. I read this just yesterday in an an article about the prostitutes in Spain.

You will find a few threads on this topic, previously posted, and you can find them by conducting a SEARCH.

Good luck and work legally. Saludos, MadridMan

Thanks for handing me my face. I understand your position, however, this does not remove the problem of finding work.

Where might I find publications for LEGAL work in Spain? I've checked on the web, but I mostly find teaching jobs, and those are usually only open to EU residents.

Hi, what nationality are you Nicole? If you're from the UK you're legally entitled to seek work in Spain. Alternatively you may put your question like this "How hard did you find it as a Canadian to settle in Madrid?" (if you were a Canadian). Also, use the search facility on this (and other Madrid boards).

It'd be fantastic if I were from the UK, but unfortunately (in this situation), I'm an American. I decided a few weeks ago to go to Spain so I've been looking for work. I've checked JobsAbroad.com and Monster. There are a couple of Spanish sites as well, but they ask for bi-lingual, EU participants to apply only. I am neither.

I'm going to attend a language school to buy some time and improve my Spanish while looking for work. It's just a bit frustrating. I'm usually a bit more planned and just moving like this makes me a little nervous. I keep telling myself I'm young and there's no time like the present, but seriously, I do need to find a job.

nicole982, in many/most respects, you being United Statesen is actually a negative and not a positive. I should say, instead, that being a non-EU national is actually a negative. The English-teaching market is flooded with the many Brits who can legally English. The wait-staff market is flooded with Latinos who not only speak fluent Spanish but are willing to work for almost nothing. All other worthwhile jobs do require good Spanish and don't pay well. Even the English teachers will tell you the salary made won't be enough to support yourself unless you have many roommates sharing living expenses.

Best of luck to you finding work.

Saludos, MadridMan

I totally agree with MadridMan. As an American who spent 4 years in Madrid trying desperately to find any kind of legal work I will tell you I was highly discouraged. I have 2 Ba's and a Masters degree and couldnt find legal work washing dishes - no exaggeration. I worked my butt off teaching English and barely could eat and pay my rent. The Americans that I know who have been successful have all secured their employment BEFORE arriving in Madrd via US companies. They are paid in dollars back home at US payrates. I am sure there are people who have been successful but I never met one and never was able to find work myself - and I consider myself pretty much a hustler and I am open to doing just about anything. I did a few translations here and there and gave some tours - but all in all couldnt support myself. Thats why I can only spend a few months a year in Spain - I have to keep coming home to make money.

As an addition to the wise words of CascadaDuSel, those working in Spain with US companies tend to have had worked for said companies IN the USA until they reached some level of accomplishment before they could be selected from an elite list to make the temporary transfer to the Spanish offices. As in most non-local-national companies, the vast majority of employees working at any given company are staffed by locals. Example: the Honda car manufacturing plant in Marysville, Ohio only staff United Statesens for labor and only some of the management are from Japan - those who've been with the company for some period of time. In the case of non-Spanish companies IN Spain, management can LEGALLY staff Spaniards because they work for lower salaries and there's no mess with paying/arranging for work visas, language issues, etcetera. I know of one guy from the United States who works here in Madrid for a large, United Statesen software company. But guess what - he's half Spanish.

Saludos, MadridMan

MM - your friend doesnt count if he is half Spanish - he wouldnt have to get a work permit.

I hear there are many more jobs lately and last month when I was shopping in Madrid I saw help wanted signs in most retail stores - it seems there is lots of work out there but it isnt very high paying for sure - good for students who live at home perhaps and just need copas money.

My new plan is to open some sort of business that would let me live in Madrid fulltime. I have some $$ saved up and could potentially do it at this point in my life but I havent found the right opportunity yet. I seem to have missed the real estate boat in Madrid - but I am waiting for the right idea to hit me ...

Exactly, CascadaDuSel. That half-Spanish friend would not count. So that goes to show how few United Statesens CAN and HAVE gotten legal work permits - at least those whom I know personally.

I too, surprisingly, have seen more "HELP WANTED" or "WAITER WANTED" signs in windows of businesses but in most of these cases I doubt they're willing to offer legal work visas and, of course, hope to hire someone who speaks Spanish if they're dealing directly with customers. If they're Spanish and willing to work for that wage - all the better - but some of these businesses (surprisingly to me) PREFER to hire illegals because then they (the business) don't have to pay social segurity, pension, or other taxes and can then pay lower wages. If the postion is for cleaning or more manual labor they may be hiring illegals or paying cash "under the table".

CascadaDuSel, we had a long discussion (or more than one) a few years ago about a United Statesen who was considering opening a business in Spain. But in the end it seemed more problematic and costly than it was worth. Hopefully you'll have more luck. If you do do so, please do let us know how it went, the pitfalls and problems, paperwork, legalities, etcetera.

Saludos, MadridMan

I find this thread very interesting and I have a similar question that I'm hoping some of you could help me answer. I am a United Statesen myself, but I am also married to a Spaniard. We have been married in both countries and have the libro de familia from Spain. My husband wants to move to Spain and I am worried about being to legally work in Spain since I am not a EU citizen nor do I plan to become one. My husband thinks that I just need to apply for residency and then I'll be able to work. Someone else told me that although I'm married to a Spaniard and even if I get residency, I'll still have to apply for a work permit. Is this true? And if it is true how long is a work permit valid?
I'd greatly appreciate any information that you guys can give me to point me in the right direction. Gracias

.... http://www.jobsabroad.com/Spain.cfm ...i have just done a google search...working in spain...and this is one of many links that came up. Maybe worth a try.

As far the sign go for waiters, they already want the applicants to have their working papers in order. Even restaurants are refusing to put in working papers for people.

I've been here for 3 years and I have never had my status as an American seen as negative. Can you explain more, MM, about this. I read your post again and I don't see how being an AMerican can be seen as negative.

Thanks,

Shawn

Profa.. you should be perfectly able to work in Spain - I believe it may take some months to do the PPW and you would need to get a work permit but unlike most Americans you WILL get one... MM can answer this better as I believe this is his situation ... I think you are in a good position to work - just dont get out a caluculator and convert salary to dollars - you will be very sad :-(

SRedw wrote: Sure. Being a United Statesen in and of itself is not a negative but being from anywhere outside of the European Union - as the United States is - is a negative. That's what I mean. Plus, United Statesens aren't Europeans either and so, depending on the position to be hired, the proprietors may be looking for someone from Europe with European attitudes and standards - unless it's to work the counter at The American Store. (the one I visited there was an Asian woman working there and I don't know if she spoke English or not because I spoke to her only in Spanish) Also, few(er) United Statesens speak Spanish (or any foreign language) so it's more difficult to be hired. And finally, there's the whole "Supremist, Spoiled American" mystique that many people in our world (and, in part, correctly so) have about United Statesens. Again, of course it would depend on the job and how/if they'd deal with the public or not. I hope I've explained myself better than in my previous posting.

La Profa, since you've married a Spaniard and you already have your Libro de Familia in Spain, all you SHOULD have to do is then apply for residency in order to be legally able to work IN Spain. It could take up to 7 months (but should only take 3 or 4) or so but not sure you can apply for residency IF you're not living in Spain. I'm really not sure on this point. I think you should be able to find information about this through the Spanish Consulate websites in the United States. For example, you should find information about this (as I did) at http://www.consulate-spain-chicago.com/ - the one serving this region - which would probably also apply to your home state in Minnesota.

Saludos, MadridMan

LaProfa,

There is a board member in a similar situation to you - her husband is Spanish/she's from US - married in both countries - now living in Madrid.

She has her own business but has shared her insights and knowledge into the many aspects of this situation - Try doing a search for posting by Chica - then look at the theme of the thread and go from there

Thanks MadridMan and Puna for the advice. I did check out the Spanish Consulate website for Chicago since they have jurisdiction over my home state of Wisconsin. But I only found information about Residence Visas to be able to legally go to Spain, do more paperwork and then wait. Nothing about being able to work if you're a Non-EU citizen. Then the Consulate says that
"Reunited family members will have to request –within a month upon arrival in Spain–the pertinent residency ID card from the Spanish Police."
No mention of working or a work permit, so either A) the individual is not expected/allowed to work OR B) the individual can work with just the Residency Card.

Puna, I read a ton of postings by Chica. This was no small task…she’s got a lot of postings!!! And just when I thought that my eyeballs were going to fall out, I found my answer…
“I am nearing the end of a 3 month wait for my residency card and official work permit (they told me it would take three months...), I have been visited by the Guardia Civil…” 2-23-02 quote from Chica
So I suppose then that the answer is yes, even if you are married to a Spaniard you need a work permit. Which brings me to my next question (still related to Non-EU citizens working…notice how I’m trying to stay with the thread?) : How long are these residency and work permits good for? And how much does it cost to apply and then renew them???

Thanks in advance to everyone who can lend their expertise!!!!

PS—While reading previous posts I came across one (Should MadridMan go to Spain?) that weighed the pros and cons of living/working in Spain. It was so interesting it kept me reading until 2 am! The post by LostInMadrid was eye-opening. I think that I (like many others) see Spain through rose-colored glasses, and this post reminded me of some of the things in Spain that I tend not to see as they really are.

Thanks MadridMan for the explanation. It still doesn't make sense to me, but it may to others. I read it three times.

After your explanation, I still don't see how it is a negative being from outside of the EU.

Please clarify more. Do you mean for finding jobs? Finding an apartment? What exactly is negative about being non-EU?

Shawn

SRedw, being non-EU in Spain without residency or a work visa is difficult NO MATTER what you're trying to do. If you don't have Spanish (or European) residency you can't (easily/cheaply) open a bank account, you can't get a drivers license, you can't buy a car/moto, you can't get a monthly BUS/METRO BONO pass, you can't legally work without a work visa (which are nearly impossible to get), you can't sign contracts (rental leases, buy cars, get a cellphone). There are TOO MANY negatives to count.

Your questions, SRedw, make me wonder how you haven't encountered friends with the same concerns. I know you work legally with a work visa but if you'd lost your job (and hence your work visa) and had to find work somewhere else I'm sure you'd find this all to be true. What kinds of things CAN you do being non-EU (and without residency, that is). If one has a work-visa that's a whole different thing.

La Profa (and thanks for trying to stay on-topic ), you can be married to a Spaniard and still require a work permit IF you don't have residency. If you have residency then you can legally work WITHOUT a work permit. I do believe residency has to be renewed but the term is long, years. Work permits can be nearly any term usually depending on the term of the contract with the company with which you have the work permit.

Saludos, MadridMan

Thanks for clarifying. The post seemed too general, at first, and now it clarifies it for people who are seriously thinking about just making the jump without thinking about all of the factors that you have mentioned.

Have a great day and next time you have a lunch, let me know. I will try and sneak away to make it.

Shawn

LaProfa,

Suggest you reach out to Chica - she is a wealth of information and is more than willing to share her expertize inbetween running a business and changing diapers.

If you will send me a private message, I'll send you some more info and Chica's email addresses -

I do laud you for wanting to broaden your horizons, Europe is very different from America. I know there are alot of Americans living in Spain, your best bet is to talk with them on how they did it.

The other way of getting her is coming as a student and seeing what opens.

regardless good luck

The best way for someone like Nicole982 to get her foot in the door is to get a student visa.

You can then work legally part time. The longer you are here, the more likely it is that you will find someone to sponsor a legitimate work visa. Once you have the work visa, you can work anywhere you want.

I do know lots of Americans (and other non-Europeans) who have carved out very interesting lives here in Madrid and make a good living. Nearly all have some special talent, experience, creativity, knack for business and/or drive to succeed. It's not at all impossible, but you have to really want it to make it work.

Generally speaking the easiest way to live and work in Madrid or Spain in general is to teach English. There is huge demand for teachers right now. (only requirement 4 week TEFL or CEFL certicate).Most people I've talked to that have made Madrid home started out at English teachers and either gone private or used it as a spring board to another job or business.

Unfortuanatly the downside is the cost of living in Madrid is brutal and the wages for starting teachers are very low.

Important note: if you choose to come to Madrid and teach English make sure you have savings to last a few months and secondly that you don't undersell you self, you can't live in Madrid teaching English for 10 euros an hour (or about 10,0000 euros a year), absolute minimum is 15 euros!

Search "teaching english in madrid" and you'll find tons of information inlcuding cost of living wages, getting work permits etc.

And who knows, we may actually see you one day at one of MadridMman's lunches

good luck

Hey Madrid Man (or anyone else out there w/ a work visa)

I just want to make sure i'm not confusing things. In this thread you said-

"I know you work legally with a work visa but if you'd lost your job (and hence your work visa) and had to find work somewhere else I'm sure you'd find this all to be true. What kinds of things CAN you do being non-EU (and without residency, that is). If one has a work-visa that's a whole different thing."

I just wanted to get some clarity on the work visa...if you lose your job or quit do you lose your visa too??? Later you go on to say--

"Once you have the work visa, you can work anywhere you want"

I'm in the process of getting my work visa and am happy to have to opportunity to have someone sponsor me but I'm not sure the job will acutally last long so I have to look at plan B...cause you should always have a plan B (i.e. applying for another job if I should need to in the future). But can I do this if this first job doesn't pan out? Does the work visa allow for multiple jobs or possible holding two jobs at once?

greetings from chicago

~M

Ha! See, I disappear from the board and still find my name all over it!

To answer LaProfa's question (thanks Puna!) I am an American married to a Spaniard. We were married in the States and then had the marriage legally recognized once we moved to Spain. Once that was done we applied for the Libro de Familia. Then, I applied for my legal residency in Spain. In order to do so I had to apply for a visa (reuniting family members) at the Spanish Consulate in NYC enabling me to stay in Spain long term while my paperwork went through.

My residency is under the "regimen comunitario" giving me the same rights as other EU citizens (no need to get a separate work visa). It has to be renewed every 5 years and is valid for as long as I am married. If, God forbid, we ever got divorced, my rights to live and work in this country would end. However, because we now have a son who is both a Spanish (and US) citizen, I would legally be allowed to stay and support my son until he turned 18.

I have debated the issue of becoming a Spanish national, but since it is not 100% clear if I would lose my American citizenship I have decided not to walk that path and have just remained a resident. Being a resident gives me almost the same rights as a Spaniard, except for voting in national elections and perhaps a few other obscure things.

Hope this has answered your question.

It's to my understanding that the family who owns The American Store is Filipino-American (arrghh... us Filipinos, we are everywhere ), so that would explain the Asian woman working there!

Going to work for an American company does not assure you of a good salary either. Amana has a the contract to do all of the Heating Ventaltion and Air Conditioning work for several of the major hotels that are under construction on the Med. both in Spain and other countries. They have had an ad looking for experienced HVAC supervisors for a few years detailing the work. Well DD sold his business last January and has been driving Mrs. Dweller up a wall, so he decides to respond to that ad. Sent off the resume and low and behold the phone rang about a week later. We talked on the phone and all sounded good until they asked how much I would need to take the job. Now bear in mind I have been doing that sort of work for over 30 years, so I told them that to go into a foreign country I would need $250K per year and they would have to furnish my housing and a car. The reply was "HA we can get a Spaniard to do it for $30K and not have to furnish the perks you are demanding" to which I replied "if that is true why haven't you been able to fill the job for over two years?" That job is still open and listed in the trade journal.

Expierience and an American company is not a gaurantee of a liveable salary. Knowing the cost of houseing and food cost, it would be a real crap shoot to go without a legal job lined up before leaving.Chica and I have discussed the cost of housing before.

By the way MM you have not given us a report as to how things are going for you lately!!!

desert dweller wrote: Things are very busy these weeks. But this conversation would be off-topic.

My First or Second post. Just a quick thanks to Madrid-Man for the website and forum.

If your here to teach English then they tend to turn a blind eye to you, In the process of getting my TEFL and I've talked to loads of teachers Americans and EU nationals and about 95% never bother registaring. Although I am here legally (married to an EU national) I'm not sure I want to go through the hoops to get a working permit. Working without papers means not having to pay the Social Security of 230 a month but agencys deduct 15% rather than 7%. It also means buying private health care (expensive at my age 40+)

I have noticed that alot of Americans (usually at least a third of each class) come and do thier TEFL but few stick around. I suppect most come to try Spain for a few months and then go home or move on.