Yes, I would say so. But, of course, it depends on how many people have to live with these 30K. I mean, if these 30K are for a single guy under-30 who lives with his parents is not the same as if the 30K have to feed a 4-children family. And, strictly speaking, some other factors must be considered when trying to "file" people into social classes, like their education degree. Probably an expert plumber earns more money than a just graduated teacher, but the social status of the latter tends to be higher considered than the former's.

It is difficult to establish a range. In the first example above, the guy can probably be considered medium-to-high level. If the same guy has to pay for his home, mortgage or rent, then the level downs to pure medium. But if the case is a couple, each of them earning 30K, the average is the same, but their status is higher.

Coming back to what I know best, my previously mentioned case, I consider myself a "6" in a scale 0-10, where 0 is a homeless and 10 is Zara's owner or Banco Santander's owner.

Bill from NYC,

What would you consider someone making 30k a year in the U.S., indigent? Certainly they'd be somewhere in the lower-tier of the middle-class, and admittedly, finding it hard to make ends meet, but still they'd be considered middle-class here. I know many who fall in this range managing.

In all my years working in the USA I never made it to $30,000/year and never had hopes of buying a house nor a nice car. I always considered myself to be "Upper Lowerclass" on the income scale. Like in Spain, just because you have a university degree does not mean you'll have a job which pays you a good salary.

In Spain, a single person earning 30,000 Euros per year is a small fortune. While that same person won't likely be able afford to buy a flat they'll likely have a decent apartment and will live a rather good life which would include some travel and eating out from time to time. If you're making 30,000 Euros AND supporting a wife and one or two children, well, it's very very difficult to live well.

But regarding the taxes, I say pay them and be happy. If you're a transient resident I can see why you'd be UNhappy paying these taxes. If you're a permanent resident you can see it from the perspective of improving the society as a whole - and YOU are participating in this directly. Of that you can be proud.

Saludos, MadridMan

MM: Let me assure you the if you were earning between $25 and 30K per year in Columbus, Ohio you could have purchased a house. It may not have been in an exclusive area, and may have needed a lot of work, but it would have been yours and you been building equity. I will not listend to the worn out excuse about not knowing how to do the work, your a smart man and can use a library for all of the "how to books" in the world. Ohio State has an engineering dept, and anyone of those proffs would have been available for consultation as would the students.

People have made fortunes starting with a lot less to work with than you. They read "how to" books and asked mucho questions. The man at the hardware store will be able to answer most of your questions. There are houses all over Ohio on E Bay as I write this that are selling for as little as $7000. Not to mention the repo market.

When you get back stateside and want to get a place send the Desert Dweller an E, and between the two of us we will figure something out. I'll make myself available for questions, just remember there is a way to adjust everything. That includes finances.

Thanks, desert dweller.

And good luck, Tim Hortons Man! Hope to hear of the developments of the job offer, the possible move to Madrid, and how it goes living on that salary. I think a lot of people would be interested in just how possible it is to do this for foreigners.

Torrales, what a useful tax table! Thanks a lot!!!!

Saludos, MadridMan

You're welcome MadridMan.

I copied it from the Help of the Individual Income Tax File Declaration Application (in Spanish, PADRE, acronym for Programa de Ayuda a la Declaracion de la REnta), so it comes straight from horse's mouth.

Torrales- great chart. I also like your analogy with the scale...It's amazing the disparity in wealth between 6-10 (not that anyone would complain about it). What's sad is few reach 6. I think your salary would be considered a 7 or an 8 on a scale of average salaries in Madrid, for example. What do you think?
Hey, DD, have an idea for you...since you are not interested in paying the high prices in Europe and I'm sure many of us would love our homes worked on...how about some exchange for housing! You probably could even get your flight paid for!!

Well, I really know my salary, not other's. So, it is a bit difficult to be accurate at positioning myself in the scale.

I said a 6 because I know it is over the average, but slightly over or at least that is my impression. There are many people whose real salaries are not in any payroll, so they can play financial engineering when taxes is the matter. I am referring to people whose business is selling services, not goods, whether they are self-employed or not, like plumbers, electricians, waiters and their tips, etc. The Spanish IRS know each and every cent I earn because it is listed in a payroll, the earnings of all those people are, say, fuzzy.

And that can explain in part, for instance, that despite my salary being over average, definitely my car is under average. I find amazing the number of high level cars (Mercedes, BMW, Audi) that are moving on Spanish streets. All those cars start from 30K on.

Man oh Man I miss the Spanish weather, went home for a wedding and it was cold wet and rainy! Awful weather only saving grace was it stopped long enough for the bride and groom to walk from the church to the reception hall.

Anyways

I surprise most people when I tell them I don't find the German tax system that onerous, if your married with dependants the total tax take is quite reasonable. What I like in particular is that the VAT is included in the price, I love the "price you see is the price you pay". I hate when I go back to Canada and have to pay the tax on top.

Germans are complaining right know because they are talking about raising the VAT from 16 to 19 percent, I don't think its a big deal. If I decide to buy an ipod I not going to quibble over a few more euros.

Anyways we won't know for a while as the boss is on holidays till end of the month. I'll post when I get more info.

I was also evaluating a job offer and I came across this IRPF (personal tax) calculator, unfortunately is only in spanish but it will tell you aproximately the net salary applying taxes and the fiscal reductions due to marital status and number of childrens, it's great for simulating it will deduct not only the taxes, but also social security and it will apply the effect of the "extra" pays (in most cases, net annual ammount will be paid in 14 checks, one every month and 2 extras for Summer and Christmas)

http://usuarios.lycos.es/ligeropaso/iframe.php?file=calculadora/calculadora.htm