Old Gringo is right where there is probably no such thing as "special education" for kids and that the schooling has a lot of memorization.

But who says that technique is bad for the child?

I hope that I have a close enough relationship with my kid(s) where they would understand the consequences of prematial sex and drugs. This is universal.

What I worry about raising children is that they might be closed minded, cruel, angry, etc...True, teenagers all rebel against their parents in many ways and you could raise good kids here in the US as well as in Spain, but I think in Spain, you constantly have to be aware of the other nations around you.

Although I am proud to be an American, there are times when I am very embarassed that this culture instills and almost celebrates ignorance.

Yes, I've meet very ignorant people in Spain as much as I have in the US, but the Spaniards are aware that there is another world out there and are very proud of their roots of discovery and exploration.

Every kid I've spoken to, whether it's in the sticks of Spain to the big city kids, they have knowledge at least of their hometown, if not about their country.

I talk to kids here in the US and they don't even know where their capital is!

Today's US teenagers in math and science are behind the rest of the developed countries. Why is that?

True, there are more opportunities for a kid to be anything he wants to be when he grows up in the US, but according to the latest US Census (these are estimates from my memory), only 3% own 90% of the wealth and one has less than 7% chance to move from one economic status to another. True, our unemployment rate is lower than Spain, but those of us who are employed can't even afford health care.

This is the biggest issue for me. We are at the mercy of the coporations.

If I'm gonna be poor, I might as well be happy and healthy.

18th century teaching techniques are great if you’re going to live in the 18th century. I would think that most parents would want their children to have exposure to computers, multi-media centers, advanced teaching techniques, well stocked libraries, etc., but maybe I’m just weird.

I don’t know where you got your statistics but they are wrong, and furthermore wealth concentration doesn’t measure quality of life on any social or economic scale. The consensus measure is the percentage of middle class your society supports. The U.S. has one of the highest percentages of middle class in the Western hemisphere. That said, it is diminishing somewhat, primarily due to the influx of marginally skilled, semi-literate immigrants from the third world. A phenomena Spain is just getting a taste of.

By the way, life expectancy in the U.S. is 10 – 15% higher than Spain. All those kids you see smoking on the streets kind of cuts into their adult life expectancy average. Hey but at least they know about the world around them!

U.S. children do lag in math and science scores. However, we have a higher percentage of college graduates and Nobel Prize winners than other western countries. Strange isn’t it? Maybe it’s an illusion created by those corporate bogymen you’re so petrified of?

I might be wrong but what I see here in the U.S., is a credit system that allows for a lifestyle that in other countries only the wealthy can have. But the price of living under this system is that if you ever want to leave the U.S., you can’t because you aren’t exactly a wealthy person, you just live like and look like one. So most Americans have to live in the U.S. to pay their loans and have what ever they want on credit and pay later. For example, here you find banks offering teenage students credit cards with a $10,000 USD line of credit, which is unheard of in most countries. So if you grow up here, you realize that you can have what ever you want as long as you can work for it and make a monthly payment. That’s why for most Americans, (in addition to other benefits) the U.S., is so great and there’s no place like it. This system gives you immediate good living standards, but makes it really hard for someone to get out of this system and the middle class. This is because you spend most of your life in debt. Actually, many countries in a smaller scale (including Spain) are imitating this system to bring their people to better living standards. Companies get really wealthy, but your average American will have to stay in this system as long as he/she wants to drive a nice car and live in a nice house.

Hey Old Gringo -- you've gone from a little cynical to downright defensive. So you had a bad experience with Spain. So your child has special needs that weren't met. So you have to stay here for now. OKAY. I'm sorry. But, I think the point people are trying to make is that you can spin it from all sides. Raising kids is difficult anywhere. Drugs, sex, drinking -- those, as people here have already said, are problems everywhere. It was a problem when I was in school at 12 years of age. Failing school systems? Well I can't speak for Spain (and I am sure you can and will), but the U.S. has some pretty severe problems. I taught high school seniors at a school in Oakland, CA, a place (Northern California) that has plenty of money floating around, and there were NO computers, children couldn't do homework b/c they weren't allowed to take their books home, and their school was made up of trailers. Not to mention that one child who was an active member of a gang threatened me on a daily basis. As for meeting special education needs, my mother makes her living off of suing school districts that don't meet their obligations under the ADA (Americans w/ Disabilities Act) and IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act). So I can tell you, we've got problems here as well. And I am SURE that Spain has its problems; I will note, however, that higher education is free there. But I think the point of this board is for everyone to be able to share their experiences and their opinions without getting shut down. Your experience is that Spain has an 18th century school system that promotes smoking, sex and memorization (what a combo). From what I've read the fact that you ended up staying in the states was most likely the best thing that could have happened in your situation. But don't start waving the American flag and shooting out rhetorical questions because someone feels differently than you do. America is run by corporations; money IS important to this country; and maybe...just maybe....the reason we have more "Nobel Peace Prize" Winners (which I'm not sure that's even true and if it is am not sure why that is the benchmark of success) is a) because there is more money in this country to FUND the studies and work behind the awards and b) because qualified people from other countries come to the U.S. to do their studies and work because they know there is more money to fund the studies and work. So in reality, your point is not far off from lngarrison's point. My final message...please take part in the discussion but don't get your feathers in such a ruffle. Alright, I'm done.

You're right, jbach, and it's a serious problem. Spaniards with good jobs in the past faced 22% apr on credit cards opposed to our 0% (hopefully it's not as high still). In the US you've gotta spend (it's the way it's set up)!
I read an article on recently that talked about the new wealth in Spain thanks to the real estate boom. Spaniards are spending a lot more than they used to- but, if they have the cash, it's like before, one tends to save first and spend later (something almost unheard of in the US). It's scary, most 25-40-year old US citizens have less than $2,000 savings. That is really amazing if you ask me.
I've also taught in schools in Spain, both public and private, and I agree with everyone...it's a hard call. If your child is an aural learner, they are set. If not, better hope they are smart and can study well. I think it also depends on in which country the child wants to end up (and of course, there's no way of knowing ahead of time). All I know is if you are looking for PTA, beautiful, interactive classrooms, teaching methods to accommodate a variety of learning styles, and sports leagues, you'd be better off living in the US (unless the school in your area is despicable).
Also, about children not knowing about the world around them, can't parents take care of that by exposing their child to other cultures, traveling, reading about far away lands and turning off Fox news? There is so much learned outside of school. Heck, look at all of us- we're not like that (closed-minded, unaware, ignorant), right?

llewilli, you go girl (no offense, old gringo, it was just so nicely put). We must have posted around the same time and so I missed you first time around (and was thinking, I painted too rosy of a picture of the US). Because I am so happy in my job, I tend to forget how horrible the schools can be in the states. I was going to mention the violence- and I'm not just referring to huge shooting sprees, I'm talking about the things that go on in a school on a daily basis. You don't tend to see things like that in an average Spanish school (can't speak for marginal areas).
It's a crap shoot- in the US it's usually the more money you have, the better school district (unfortunately).

What school were you going to place your kid in? A monastery?

All of my boyfriend's nephews and nieces schools are very modern, very much like in the US. Their education is free, they have well stocked libraries, etc...

I told you my statistics are from the US Census. Can you really argue with that?

I'm not worried about my kid smoking. Rather have him smoke than in jail for murder. The US has a huge population in jail. Why?

Gee whiz, I think Spain has a lot of really smart people to. There are other prizes out there besides the Nobel and I will have to disagree w/ your statistic on college graduates. Spain has a high percentage of college grads.

I am glad that you are proud of your choice to stay in the US.

I started this forum as an open discussion on why or why we wouldn't move to Spain with our SO.

This forum is meant to be a discussion of pros and cons, not a reflection on our patriotism.

If I wanted that, I wouldn't even bother looking on this site.

We're not dissing your choice to stay in the US and raise your son. We just wanted to know why you made that choice.

Viva Espana.

That last message was to Old Gringo.