After reading a few other threads, the question (more of a concern) came to me about how difficult it really is to get a work visa to work in Spain as a US citizen. I have been strongly considering moving there next year (springtime) but by what I've been reading I guess it could be longer. I saw in one thread that MadridMan has been working on this for nearly 7 years if I'm not mistaken.

What is the most difficult part about getting the visa? Once you land a job in Spain, isn't that enough? Or is landing the job the most difficult part? If so, I'm sure the field of work you choose and the demand for people to fill those positions would be a factor. Any ideas on what the demand is for IT professionals? That is my field here in the US, but I am concerned with my ability to perform it there based upon my current fluency in Spanish. I have been studying for a while and have learned a lot, but I do not consider myself fluent yet.

I was doing some research on visas and I noticed that there is a "self-employed" type visa. How hard are those to obtain? I am wondering if obtaining one of those would be enough to start living there while remotely working for a US company (working remotely is an option in the IT field obviously). Once there and working, it would only be a matter of time before you could find and transition to a local company I would imagine.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

-Loc

Hi there,
I wish you luck with your venture. I think there is always a chance for self-employed entrepreneurs to be successful if they have the right idea and enthusiasm. I don't know the legal barriers in your case, but maybe Martin de Madrid (or others resident in Spain) could help you out on this side.
Here are a couple of ideas that may be worth looking into (I accept they may not be particularly good ideas; let's hope others can put their thinking caps on)
a) the cost of studying languages/computer courses etc. is a lot cheaper than the UK. Perhaps you could tie up with an existing school and try to market it to the Brits (a lot of language hurdles to be overcome here)
b) Set up an accommodation finding agency for those spending some time in Madrid. Hostals/hotels are great for a few days, but I think there's a need for people who are staying some time in Madrid who would welcome the chance to share an apartment (and bills)

Again, good luck in your quest!

You ask how difficult it is for a U.S. citizen to get a work permit for Spain. To put it simply--next to impossible unless you're married to someone from the European Union or an American company transfers you to Spain.

The reason it's so difficult is that to apply for the visa you need to have a valid contract from a company in Spain, but in order for a company to offer you a contract you need to have your work permit. So it's a real catch-22.

You could get lucky and find a company that wants to help you with the visa, but the problem is this is a very long process and could take 6 months or more. So, of course most companies aren't going to want to wait that long for you. Even if they do decide to wait it out the problem is that you can always be denied the work permit. Theoretically a company can only hire a U.S. citizen if there is no one available (Spanish or other European Union members) to do that particular job. Proving this is really tough which is why they can deny you a work permit, especially when you consider that Spain has a relatively high unemployment rate and there are more than enough locals for the available jobs, unless you're looking for something really specialized.

I don't know much about the self employment visa. It may be easier to get than the visa for working for another company, but it will definitely be costly to set up a business.

Good luck!

Maybe you could approach this from another angle. I know there's always quite a lot of Unix admin jobs available in the UK. I'm not sure, but it may be easier to get a working visa there. Then (assuming you keep up the Spanish lessons) you may be able to get a role working in Spain (I've seen quite a few jobs advertised on www.jobserve.co.uk for people with Unix skills to work in Spain. I've been frustrated as I don't have the relevant Unix skills - I can use VI editor and move files around, but that's about it).
Since I'm normally resident in the UK, contact me if you need any help

Hi Loc! Welcome to our little message board.

You wrote: Mine is a not-so-special case, I'm afraid. I imagine others would have a (SOMEWHAT!) easier journey than me because I have no specialized training, nor certification, nor anything that would help me get a job in Spain. (unless you consider a Bachelor's degree in Geology from OSU useful - but I haven't used it for work-related purposes since 1993)

I'd say that's it. JUST LANDING A JOB is THE MOST difficult part. You'll find, here in this forum, LOTS of stories from people who were promised a visa, given the old "Yes! We'll give you a visa but let's see how it goes first." So essentially, lots of employers invite you to work illegally, WITHOUT PAPERS and without contract and without insurance and without security. Then after doing a good job for a month or two you'll ask them, "So... what about that work visa?" and they'll say something like "We're working on that" or "let's give it a little while longer." Then, after 6-months or MORE, when you've overstayed your visitors visa and official an illegal alien living in Spain, they either drop your wages or fire you as "cutback measures". You see, by asking you to work illegally they really "have you by the .... jewels" and can manipulate you in so many nasty ways. This is the way it often works and makes for a kind of employment mill where people are coming and going all the time, many working illegally, and the employer never has to pay into your social security or other benefits so THEY save money and they get a few months of HARD work out of you too because you're trying to win your work visa.

You wrote: You'll want to check out the recent thread entitled " Madrid : Higher or lower unemployment? " where Dommo was asking essentially the same question but more specifically about the demand for qualified IT persons.

It's a TOUGH road. We have/had a few IT professionals who were working in Spain under these conditions and now... I don't know what happened to some of them AFTER they lost their jobs. It's definitely NOT a secure job market unless you're offered a work visa upfront or if you have highly specialized and marketable skills.

If it was so easy to claim "self-employment" in order to get a visa EVERYONE would do it. You can be sure I would have (and definitely COULD have) done that YEARS ago.

The government has to first be shown that you'll not be a leach on the economy but you have to PROVE this. Ways to prove this is by showing them you have a work-visa IN HAND or that you have something crazy like $100,000 USD in the bank.

Getting married to a Spaniard just MIGHT be the easiest way to move to/live in Spain but even that's a pain in the rear and can take up to a year of paperwork. But I don't recommend marrying a Spaniard JUST to have the right to live/work in Spain. But sometimes, if you do love someone in Spain (or even like them a lot) it might be the ONLY option. Tic-Toc

Saludos, MadridMan

Wow, thanks for all the quick and very informative responses. This information, while not all good news, is very helpful.

Well I definately do NOT want to do this the illegal way, last thing I want is to be banned for 10 years from the country I desire to reside in. Not to mention getting low-balled by companies taking advantage of my illegal status. So that's out of the question. Being that I'm from the US and I'm not a refugee, I would have to reside in Spain for 10 years before I could apply for citizenship, is that correct? Not including the marrying a Spaniard option of course. Though that is an option as I am not married, but I'm not about to marry someone on a whim.

Filbert, your idea of working in the UK then transferring to Spain is an interesting idea. Though I must admit I know nothing regarding obtaining visas / residency in the UK regarding US citizens. This is something I will have to research. I would definately be willing to do something of this sort if needed and deemed promising.

As for the self-employed visa, well I definately don't have $100,000 USD or anything remotely close to that saved up in the bank. So unless there's another way to prove that I am not a leech on the economy besides that, this won't work. There is also always the worry that the US company desides to do a "reduction in force" and targets the overseas employee first. Then instant illegal and have to pick up and move back I would assume. Though perhaps not, this is a bit unclear to me. Once you had a self-employed visa, as long as you're able to land a next job (whether a US company or one in Spain), you could probably stay using that visa, that sound right?

I guess I do have one advantage in the fact that I do have a decent arsenal of IT skills. I have Unix, NT, and networking (Cisco etc.) skills so I would just have to overcome the non-Spanish, non-EU issue. I will see how this goes while I'm in Madrid. I will take a stack of resumes with me. Is CV just another name for these? What I mean is the format the same for what the companies will expect to see?

I must admit, when I first starting planning this, I thought it would be much easier to accomplish. I figured that the language barrier was the biggest deal. I see immigrants everywhere I go here in the US, I didn't realize how hard it is elsewhere. But I'm not about to give up! Again, thanks for all the advice, I have some more research ahead of me before I arrive next month!

-Loc

It seems us IT types are the world leaders in wanting to leave our native country!

Loc, I've been trying the applying for a job in Madrid from afar thing for about six months now. So far I've had absolutely zero response. Literally not even an autoresponder! I've spoken to a couple of people in Madrid who are under the impression that as soon as an employer sees the 'UK' (or 'USA' in your case) bit they just chuck the application in the bin as it's a lot of hassle for them when they can employ a local. This is even given the fact that as a UK resident I don't need any visas to work there....

Maybe yourself, Lemming and I need to set up an IT company up in Madrid to employ us all!

The only thing we can do though is keep trying! In the end it will happen! Let us know how you get on.

Dom.

Dommo,

I haven't done very much applying from afar as of yet. But I have read that the success rate from this method is very low indeed. I still plan on continuing to apply simply because I might get lucky, but it definately seems like going there and doing this in person will be the best bet and of course still no guarantee.

The company starting idea is actually not a bad idea at all. Three skilled, intelligent, driven individuals working together can accomplish A LOT. However, I think as the rules state we have to prove that we have $100,000 or something crazy sitting idle in a bank first. And I don't know about you two, but I don't even have nearly a third of that sitting idle! lol

You are right, no giving up. Eventually we will find a way!

-Loc

Sir Loc wrote: A large group of us here joked about this possibility years ago but, of course, no one was really serious, nor was I. Most people living/working in the USA have relatively EXCELLENT paying jobs compared to a similar job in Spain or most places in Europe so they weren't truly all that eager to ditch that and move on to something less secure in Spain. Besides, it seems that even if someone does start their own company, they're obligated to follow Spanish laws in that they MUST first consider/explore/exhaust hiring EU members before hiring outsiders - hiring locals keeps their economy stronger, of course. I don't think you could simply hire who you wanted but I may be wrong. Seems odd, doesn't it, that you couldn't hire whomever you wanted??

Saludos, MadridMan

The company starting idea is actually not a bad idea at all. Three skilled, intelligent, driven individuals working together can accomplish A LOT.

how about setting up a combined language/computer studies school. There are already many successful English language academies in Madrid (so the demand is there) Add in computer courses and you may have a unique product. Also you could provide courses for English-speaking IT people who wanted to learn computer/business jargon in Spanish.
If you want someone to maintain the UK telephone/marketing side I may be able to help!