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#40043 - 07/09/00 02:56 PM Re: Should MadridMan go to Spain?
Antonio Offline


Executive Member

Registered: 05/07/00
Posts: 1252
Loc: Madrid (Spain)
Hi Nuria,

I was thinking of going to the USA to have a work experience or even get a job. I'm studying Computer Science Engenieering (4th course). Could you give me some advice and also tell me about your experience?.

Thanks,

Antonio

PS: Sorry MM. I know this is your topic but I wanted to ask Nuria about this since it is very important for me.
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#40044 - 07/14/00 08:28 PM Re: Should MadridMan go to Spain?
Nuria Offline
Member

Registered: 07/04/00
Posts: 267
Loc: NJ, USA
Hi Antonio,
I am sorry I didn't get back to you earlier but I went on vacation. I was lucky here because I already had my visa because I was married to an American man. My experience here is that if you want to work and you show them you will do a good job they will hire you. When I came here my English was horrible (it didn't change that much and I wanted an administrative job, but anyway they understood that I was going to try hard to be good at my job. I have been working for 6 month and they are happy with me. I think you shouldn't have any problem finding a job here because right now they have a lot of jobs for computer guys. One of my coworkers who is from France got his job and they gave him a "training visa". They did all the paperwork and they brough him from France, not bad, right? My company has a lot of workers from Asia and Europe and they LOVE to have foreigner people, we even have our own club in the company. I know there are some companies that would bring you here with a training visa and even a work visa. I recommend you to go to www.monster.com where you can find openings and information about working in USA. Let me know if you need more information.
By the way, my experience working in USA is just wonderful.

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#40045 - 07/24/00 10:08 AM Re: Should MadridMan go to Spain?
Mr. International Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 6
Loc: Denmark - Scandinavia
Hi Madridman,

Think twice about moving from the US to Costa del Sol, it is not what you dream it to be.

You are up for a cultural chock.

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#40046 - 07/24/00 01:10 PM Re: Should MadridMan go to Spain?
MadridMan Offline


Executive Member

Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 10011
Loc: Madrid, Spain (was Columbus, O...
Hi Mr. International! Read my 6-30-2000 posting (above) with "the final word" about that job. In shot, they would not take me because I didn't have web graphics design experience. Oh well. Better luck next time!

Saludos, MadridMan
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#40047 - 07/25/00 03:41 AM Re: Should MadridMan go to Spain?
Mr. International Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 6
Loc: Denmark - Scandinavia
Hi Madridman,

Have you tried writing temporal job-agencies in Madrid ?

In Madrid (Spain) allmost all jobs offered, are through these kinds of agencies. If you know HTML, javascript, how to put up a webserver, etc. you should have a good chance, but the salary wont be any higher than 1000 US a month.

I have tried it myself.

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#40048 - 07/27/01 07:17 PM Re: Should MadridMan go to Spain?
jer Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/01
Posts: 86
Loc: madrid, spain... the plaza may...
Bad news on the web design front. While it is a growing field here in Madrid, the employers ask you to know loads of stuff (Java, JavaScript, Flash, Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Perl, etc) and to know them well. So, not many can make the cut. Take me for example, an American with a legal working situation because I was born in Scotland (only spent 1 month there as a baby though). It is funny, I used to go looking for jobs at web companies and was told that either I did not know enough or I could not work fast enough for them. So, I decided to look for my own clients and start my own projects and now I have more work than I can currently handle. I consider myself a better than average graphic/web designer and in the end I am glad I did not get picked up by a design company and decided to go it on my own.

MadridMan, 200.000 + ptas./month is above average. I don't know who told ya otherwise but although the "official stats" say that the average salary is 260.000 ptas./month in Madrid, the reality of it is not so. Besides, with 200.000 (even before taxes) you can live pretty well here in Madrid.

End note: Chase your dream, I did and it was the best thing I ever did! I left a $40,000/year teaching gig in NY to come live here at the age of 25 and I don't regret it in the least.

Saludos,
jer...
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#40049 - 07/28/01 10:49 AM Re: Should MadridMan go to Spain?
Wolf Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 1245
Loc: Rockford, IL/Milton, WI, USA
I agree with MadridMan's concerns. I wonder just how well a person can live on 200,000 ptas a month. It doesn't seem logical, since it takes a large part of that just to keep a roof over your head, and the utilities paid. Even if the prices are lower in Spain, you still have to eat.

The only way I can see where that little money could possibly work is if a person lived in a shared flat, and cut their costs there by 75%. Then there'd be enough to live on, but any frills would be a dream at best.

Travel would be critically limited, and as far as getting back home to the U.S., to visit family, or for an emergency, a person would have to ask for help.

I would also be concerned about health insurance. Even though that doesn't seem to be a big concern by most young people, almost anything can happen, and if it does... what do you do?

If the cost of living is really that low in Spain, why do they require people from the U.S., who want to live there, and buy property, without working, prove that they have an income in excess of $70,000 a year? And prove that it will be ongoing for their entire stay? Or... is this figure wrong?

If my calculations are correct, that's nearly six times as much money guaranteed each year than the 200,000 ptas monthly is.

MadridMan, you'll get there someday. But do it on your own terms. This site may well end up as the vehicle you need to reach your goals. Someday it will be considered the ultimate source of information for all things Madrid, and then you can reap the rewards of your hard work, and diligence towards making this place as great as it is, and will become.

Wolf

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#40050 - 07/28/01 01:47 PM Re: Should MadridMan go to Spain?
jer Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/01
Posts: 86
Loc: madrid, spain... the plaza may...
Hey Wolfgang:

Concerns are good inded, theuy keep us from making stupid and rash decisions.

Living here for 5 years now I think I have more insight on how far the money goes than someone who just visits from time to time.

I live with my girlfriend and she earns 150.000 ptas./month after taxes and my monthly income varies since I work for myself. For example, this month I cleared 200.000 ptas. while in August I will make 500.000 (htis is an exceptional month for me). I charge my clients half up front for their web designs so I can speculate on my income for August. I would say between my girlfriend and I we clear about 300.000 to 400.000 ptas./month and TRUST me, it is more than enough to live well on.

Ok, so I will never have 3 cars, a speedboad, 2 jetskis, etc but I don't want them either. If I wanted that type of "live to work but never really live life" lifestyle I would have stayed in the good old U.S. of A.

Admitedly, it is hard to buy an apartment here in Madrid these days for the prices have gone through the roof but I have an AMAZING apartment looking over the Plaza Mayor and I think I travel quite a bit and have all the "luxeries" I need.

My throw caution to the wind and go for your dream comment was meant to encourage MM to make the move.

If you are a resident here, health coverage is taken care of by the state. So, if MadridMan were hired by a company (either an American on that sponsored his Visa or a Spanish one, he would eventually get his residency and be a full fledged adopted Spaniard laugh with health insurance and the whole 9 yards.

The law that provides for the income level to be that high is not because it is expensive to live here but rather they want to be sure that you are going to be comfortale here without depending on anyone else. I think that law sprung from the immigration laws to keep many immigrants without means from just moving over.

En fin, in my case, it was the idea of moving here while I was still young (and not only at heart :D) that made me chase my dream and move to Madrid. Sure, I could have tought in NY for 30 years until I was 55 and then come over with my U.S. pension but that was not for me. Life is too short and we do not know if we will even make it to 55.

"Doing it on your own terms" is a great piece of advice but it is very hard. I did just that but had to teach English and do translations (both of which I hate) here in Madrid to survive befor things started going well for me and my web/internet stuff.

I admit that I was lucky and my EC citizenship mad life a lot easier but I was also not willing to take failure as an outcome.

Go, go, go MM!

Saludos,
jer...
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madrid nut, webweaver of www.multimadrid.com and keeper of the plaza-cam & sol-cam .

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#40051 - 07/28/01 01:54 PM Re: Should MadridMan go to Spain?
missmadrid98 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/00
Posts: 301
Loc: Madrid
i am sorry but i don´t agree that 200,000 pts a month is not enough to survive, what kind of life do you want to lead??? madrid has excellent public transportation you don´t need car and what kind of house do you wnat to live in. my goodness 200,000 pts a month is alooooooooooot of money. i am just floored to hear that that amount of money is not sufficient to live off of. it all depends on people standards though and how people like to live. as long as i make enough to pay rent, utilities, food and my abono for the month, 100,000 pts a month is great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#40052 - 07/28/01 03:11 PM Re: Should MadridMan go to Spain?
Wolf Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 1245
Loc: Rockford, IL/Milton, WI, USA
Jer, mm98,

I agree, for the both of you, it was probably a good choice. But that doesn't make it all that easy for the rest of us. Issues related to family, children, grandchildren, and a lifetime of work enter the picture. Issues that we can't set aside.

But, when you indicate that the Spanish government said that the $70,000 a year minimum was essential, don't you think that's what they meant for anyone migrating there? Didn't you indicate that's what they said was essential to maintain a comfortable lifestyle?

I also bring up the fact that studies done by Spanish sources indicate that more young people are living at home for a longer period of time, because it takes them that long to realize incomes that will allow them to live comfortably on their own.

To do something on one's own terms simply means that they should be comfortable with the decision, and not feel that they are making a mistake. They should be prepared for the outcome, just like the thousands and thousands of Americans from the north who move to Florida after they retire, then find out they can't stand the hot summers, and end up selling what they have there, and going back north again, to a place they felt more comfortable in than they thought.

I guess that's why my wife and I want to be snow birds, and throw Spain in for spring and/or fall visits. We can get winters in Florida, beautiful Spain in the cooler seasons, and enjoy the northern U.S. when it's lush and green. For us, that is doing what we want, on our own terms.

It's nice to see your passion for having made the moves. It tells me you are glad you made the choices you did.

Wolf

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