Booklady/Fernando, yes, ETA is constantly be referred to as "separists". I think most everyone knows them to be terrorists but can only guess that the word separists is used to describe their demands while terrorists terrorize for a multitude of reasons. Also, we've been calling them separists for years and years now and that's how people know them to be called - hard to change that, I guess.

Saludos, MadridMan

But it is inaccurate to call them basque separatists.

As I have written here before, what distinguishes ETA from other basque separatist groups (like parties as PNV, EA, Aralar or other social groups)?

They kill to cause terror and impose their political meanings. Therefore, what define ETA is not their seek for independence of the Basque Country, but that they are terrorists. Or at least if you want, "the basque separatist terrorist band ETA".

Fernando

You know MadridMan, you may have a good point that the press calls them separatists because that's all they know. They don't know any better!

I now know better after having been on this board for several years. "Listening" to the "conversations' provided by members such as Fernando, Pim and Calibasco was an education.

Both the EU and the US official regonize ETA as a terriost organization. If the media calls them seperatist this shows sympathy towards ETA and understates the 800+ people killed by them. ETA are communist pigs they want the same form of goverment which has drawn some European countries to unbelievable poverty and decay.

As I said in another post, ETA won't die because of cutting it's head as people said some months ago. A hydra can replace lost heads, the answer is negotiation, and to call negotiation to a surrender is be too naïve.

This is just a proof that they are operative and that they have an organization that allows to explode simultaneously several charges.

As usual, unlike it's detractors say, they warned with time enough to avoid civilians to be harmed, having been able to cause a massacre instead. As they always do.

PNV, Aralar and others have NEVER been separatist although now they look like they could be, because PP policies have pressed it's members to extreme position after PP chase of the basque political parties, media and institutions, and the tortures.

ETA is NOT communist.

This is a race in which one player is ETA trying to recruit new terrorists as fast as possible and the other is the police trying to capture them as fast as possible. And while ETA has more problems to recruit new terrorists, the police is capturing them much faster every time ETA's head falls.

This is a proof that they are eager to show that they are still there. They used to make all the bombs just 2 kilos of a common explosive, 11 detonators and 5 persons to place all the bombs.

That's the reason for which they sayed the bomb in Santillana del Mar was placed to explode at 13:30 in on place and it exploded at 15:45 400 meters away, injuring a girl and an old woman. And the reason for which they placed the bombs in crowded areas.

This bombs were not intented to kill people but for having some publicity. 400 "civilians" (non-policemen or soldiers) have died due to ETA bombs, including a dozen kids.

PNV, Aralar and EA are independentist parties, check their websites and see their political principles. They are independentists because they want. Don't blame others for what you do.

ETA is a marxist-leninist terrorist band which wants to impose a communist dictatorship in an independent Basque Country by violent means.

Unknown (no fichados) ETA members are really difficult to catch, don't you think? Like the ones who committed these day's, so don't expect more head-falling. Police did what they did because they had an insider who is probably now hiding or dead.

You perfectly know that they sometimes change some minutes the explosion time info in order to be able to catch a member of the bomb-squad working on it.

In those 400 civilians you include, you are probably counting people involved in the fight against basque independence. If you really counted only peasants, the numbers would drop to 200? 100? 50? 25?.

In fact, it's amazing how low it is. No army in the world or terrorist organization makes such low non-target casualties.

You know how easy would have been for them just not to warn after using big amounts of explosives in supermarkets or malls, which they have done many times, and then simply not warn, but they do.

If they hadn't warned, where there have been no injured or some minor injuries, there would have been hundreds of dead people.

Do you want to make people believe that they wanted to kill these people?

What would have happened if the people in New York had been warned half an hour ago that they were going to destroy the towers? Well, that's killing innocents! Don't try to confuse.

They fight the spanish government but they don't want to mass kill spanish population, and this is a BIG DIFFERENCE, a vital difference for tens of thousands (perhaps including you and me) who are NOT DEAD, because of this.

Even if they killed the most cruel police in Spain, they would be assasins and terrorists. Of course they don't (usually) try to mass kill.

But to say that ETA don't want to kill innocents is too much. Remember the bombs in Hipercor in Barcelona (big stores), where they killed 35 of its customers who were the target of the bomb. Remember how they placed the bombs beside Guardia Civil bases knowing that the agents' families would be catch by the blast. Or how they placed car-bombs in crowded areas in order to kill a police agent. Or how they killed a councilman and his wife leaving their three kids without parents.

With which right do you give us moral lessons justifying some crimes because ETA didn't killed thousands instead of hundreds?

Let me summarize who were ETA victims:

339 civilians
198 Guardia Civil's agents killed (national policemen)
145 Policía Nacional (national policemen)
97 Fuerzas Armadas (military)
24 Policía Local (council policemen)
13 Ertzaintza (basque autonomous policemen)
1 Mossos d'Esquadra (catalonian autonomous policemen)

Total: 817

ETA victims in the last 4 years (2000-2004):

Kids:
A 6 year-old daughter of a Guardia Civil

Policemen and militars:
1 Mosso d'Esquadra
4 Fuerzas Armadas
4 Guardia Civil
4 Policía Nacional
5 Ertzaintza

Politicians:
1 UPN party councilmen
5 PP party councilmen
2 PSOE party councilmen
Ex Civil Governor of Guipúzcoa (The Basque Country)
Ex Health Minister and member of PSOE party
PSOE party member of the Basque Parlament
PP party member (party's president in Aragón)

Judges and advocates:
Chief State's Advocate of the Supreme Court
Judge of the Provincial Court of Vizcaya (The Basque Country)
Judge of the Supreme Court

Journalists:
Financial Director of the basque newspaper "El Diario Vasco"
Journalist and member of an anti-ETA association

Workers:
1 President of businessmen association of Guipúzcoa (The Basque Country)
1 Civilian
1 Cooker
1 Bus driver
1 Car driver
1 Prison worker
2 workers of the company Electra

Fernando

As Quintos233 said, ETA is considered, ranked, named, considered - whatever terminolgy is correct - as a terrorist organization by the EU, by the US and by the UN ..

NO, they never have tried to mass kill.

Fernando, I knew you were going to bring up this matter, which is the only one, and which the warned in advice just like the hundreds of others, and were no people would have died if the police had evacuated the building which the did not, out of ineptitude. But they warned with time enough, so it's not an intent of mass killing.

These are obviously collateral damages. If you discover the bomb that explodes and kills selectively the people around, that can make you millionaire. In the meantime, both in wars and guerrilla or terrorist actions some innocents die.

Since the 478 below the "civilians" are policemen and soldiers, it's obvious that those 339 so called "civilians" include politicians fighting against basque independence, and the rest.

Very, very few of those are peasants.

From your list of those last four years, I extract:

These ARE civilians with the possible exception of the prison worker, which probably had a debt with them (may be torture).

Anyway, in this period, it would be:

9/44= 20%

Not only it's an amazing percentage in collateral damage in collateral damages (of peasants) in any continued armed action in the world, but it also is the best proof that the killings are selective and not mass killings.

The many moral lessons I could give you have nothing to do with wether ETA kills some or many. They have to do with trying to make people believe that ETA makes mass killings (like you and your leader trying to mess them in 11-M), when, being spanish, you know very well that's this is FALSE.

If you need more lessons, I'll be glad to help.