miche, today 3 young Ecuatorians (your countrymen) have hit with a knife a young Spaniard (he had to go to the hospital) when he was entering into the high school. These 3 young ecuatorians don´t belong to mafias and are not common delinquents but they have hurt a young Spaniard with a knife. Do We need this kind of uncivilized people in Spain?. Never in the past these type of thing happened. Just after third world immigrants came to Europe We started to know these kind of incidents. Now in Germany there is a bus that have been hijacked by a young turk. Hey, We don´t need uncivilized people in Europe.

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2003/04/25/madrid/1051258468.html

LOS AGRESORES HAN SIDO DETENIDOS
Un joven, apuñalado a las puertas de su instituto en Carabanchel

MADRID

NOTICIAS RELACIONADAS

EUROPA PRESS.- Un joven de 18 años de edad resultó herido por arma blanca a primera hora de esta mañana al ser agredido por tres ecuatorianos, al parecer menores de edad, a las puertas del instituto donde estudia, situado en el número 84 de la calle de Antonio de Leyva, en el distrito de Carabanchel.

Según informó un portavoz de la Jefatura Superior de Policía, los presuntos agresores -que iban indocumentados- fueron arrestados poco tiempo después de que se produjera el ataque y los agentes que llevaron a cabo su detención les intervinieron una navaja que tenía restos de sangre.

Sobre las 8.40 horas, tres ecuatorianos se acercaron al joven español cuando iba a entrar al instituto y tras una breve pelea fue apuñalado en el abdomen. Médicos del Samur-Protección Civil le estabilizaron y trasladaron en una ambulancia de soporte vital avanzado hasta el Hospital 12 de Octubre, donde ingresó con pronóstico reservado.

En las últimas semanas, el distrito de Carabanchel está siendo escenario de numerosas reyertas entre jóvenes de origen sudamericano y españoles.

La Policía ha incautado dos cuchillos de cocina, una navaja y un gancho metálico a los tres jóvenes detenidos.

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I won´t post any more news. I just wanted to show you that almost all the murdering, pickpockets, delinquents, ... in Spain are not Spaniards but foreigners (immigrants) and how Spain (and all Europe) is changing to worst thank to them.

ERT,

Are we to gather from your report that nobody had ever been stabbed by a Spaniard in the past? Are we also to believe that absolutely no Spaniards committed a crime during the last several days, or physically harmed anyone? Are we also to believe that Europeans don't do anything to each other, it's only these "outsiders" that come in and cause crime?

Wow! That's kind of tough to swallow, isn't it? Sounds kind of like something a guy said 70 years ago. What was his name? Oh yeah! I remember now. Adolph Hitler.

Wolf

Wolf,

I´ve never said Spaniards didn´t comit crimes or or robberies (although also in many cases they were gipsies) in the past. Also note, that violent assaults and crimes (like when 8 morroccoan men raped a Spanish woman or when 1 young Moroccoan kills a monk and a woman because they told him to not stay in Spain) like the ones that immigrants have brought to us have been very rare in Spain. I´ve said that all nations (even Sweden) has their share of criminals and thieves (you can search for it in a previous post).

And I say it again, in the last 2 weeks I´ve not seen any news in the online newspapers where I got the news I´ve posted in this thread were Spaniards were involved. 90% of the news involving violence, assasinations, robberies, rapes,... involve immigrants. They represent just the 5% of the Spanish population yet they get 90% of the news of violence and crime. Does it take you to any conclussion? (I hope you don´t fail in the same mistake in which others fail of atributing the savages crimes, violence or robberies of the immigrants because they are opresse minorities. I don´t know what is the cause of it. What I know is that I want a peaceful country. If that implies that I have to say "no" to a multicultural society then I would say "no" to it anyday of the week).

What I´m trying to explain is that multicultural societies have never worked and it is a fantasy to believe the contrary when factual data have shownn otherwise. If I were to take a confortable opinion and if I were to try to look friendly and "open minded" to everyone then I would choose to think and say what you and others are saying. I´m not. I prefer to use common sense and factual data than to believing in "good words" and "fantasy societies". You, as an american, may be live with common violence in a daily basis. In Spain 100% of the cities and neighbourhoods (except gipsy ones) have been always absolutely safe even at 5.00 a.m.). Now, certain places in Spain are not safe. Why?. Because third world immigrants have made them to be an inhospitality place. And, stadistics also say that it is the same in France, England, Italy, Sweden and other countries.

And I don´t know why you have to talk about Hitler. What We are talking about has nothing to do with fascism, nazism, or racism. We are talking about common sense and living in a peaceful country. With a multicultural, multiethnic society this will never happen. If anybody want to believe in fantasies and utophies, good for them. I´m not that person.

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Wold, After I posted this reply to you I went to read www.elmundo.es again. I searched for "Madrid" and I´ve found another savage assault by immigrants. In this case, to a blind Spaniard done by 3 Moroccoans. These 3 moroccoans assaulted the ONCE blind coupon seller, hit him (he was found in the ground with a lot of blood) and stole him. Never in the past We have had this kind of savage acts. You are not a Spaniard so may be you don´t understand how safe We used to live and how upset are many of us about it (the ones that are not brainwashed by the multiculturalist media).

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2003/04/25/madrid/1051290736.html

Though it is true that Spain has always been a safe country, it is not less true that we have had crime all of the time (as any other country), and that those crimes were committed by spaniards (a minority of them by gypsies).

What has happened is that the inmigrants who came here to commit crimes have been added to this pool of undesirables.

Fernando

Fernando,

I think you still don´t understand the situation. ALL the countries in the world have delinquents and criminals. The difference is that in Spain or any other Western country the % of delinquency and crimes was minimal and didn´t represent a real problem (ie, maybe 0.05% of the Spaniards were delinquents). In most Central and Southamerica, as well as any other third world country, delinquency and crime is a very big problem. If We import people from those countries We will also import their tendencies towards crime and delinquency. As immigration is a new concept in Spain (just started in the last 4 or 5 years) We don´t realize that our society will be a very violent society (like those of Colombia, Venezuela, Chile, Honduras,...) if We let that millions of them come to live in our country. They come from countries where life doesn´t mean much for many of them (in Brazil even the police kills childs in the streets). The % of immigrants in Spain is the 5% yet they are commiting the 80% of the crimes and delinquency. So Spaniards representing the 95% of the population only represent the 20% of the crimes and delinquency but the 5% of immigrants comit most of the crime. Does it mean anything to you?. When immigrants (or their descendants) represent the 15% or 20% of the total population, I´m totally sure that crime in Spain will be like those of Southamerica (and many could not walk alone in the streets in most cities in Spain).

A brazilian friend of mine that is living now in Valladolid told me that she was very happy and is enjoying the fact that she can walk alone in the streets after 19.00, because in her city in Brazil she can´t). Do you want the same for Spain?. Don´t doubt it that it will happen if We still keep thinking that third world immigrants have the same mentality and ethics towards crime and delinquency like the one We Europeans have.

And this is a fact that you will realize in the future for Spain: those neighbourhoods were a majority of immigrants live will be full of crimes and delinquency.

And, come on, realize that the kind of brutal delinquency and crimes that are happening in Spain (like some of the ones I´ve posted in the news), NEVER happened in the past in Spain. And if it happened, it was once in a year, and not an everyday news.

Fernando,
It is a pleasure to read your responses. You are always the voice of reason and logic. I suspect that if we do a statistical sample of crime in Spain today, it would be found that all groups commit crimes. But even so, in looking at the Interpol statistics, Spain seems to have the lowest murder rates among Southern European countries and that is probably why so many people feel safe there.

Do you know which ministry keeps crime statistics in Spain?

ERT,
Are you against "all" immigration, or just illegal immigration?

"voice of reason and logic"??. So, I don´t have reasonable arguments?. Oh, great, whatever you say Booklady. Now, I´m going to show you how you think you are reasonable and I will find that you are not.

You say that all groups comit crimes and delinquency. So for you it is the same the groups who have negligible crimes and delinquency in Spain (western european drugdealers in Spain for example; from France, Holland, England) and the groups that are commiting crimes and delinquency everyday in thousands (thirdworld immigrants)(including murders and violent assaults)??.

So, for you it is the same a young french dealing with "extasis" in Ibiza than the 1500 moroccoans, 1200 colombians,... that comit murders, violent assaults, robberies in bank and houses, rape,...???. So immigrants representing a 5% of the total Spanish population comit 80% of all the crimes and delinquency and you want us to believe that that is the same than the 39 million of Spaniards that comit the 20% restant??.

So, let´s say that just 1 Japanesse is in prison in Spain and that there are 3000 Moroccoans, 4000 Colombians, 2000 Ecuatorians in prison in Spain?. So, if all groups comit delinquency all groups are the same???. Japanesse=Moroccoans in terms of delinquency in Spain??.

Wow, that is a nice way of reasoning...

I think I´m going to stop posting this kind os issues, you don´t want to realize FACTS and you still keep believing in something (multiculturalism) that have been proven is a totally disaster.

I´m again illegal immigrants and also I´m totally against massive immigration, even if it is legal. 3 million immigrants in a medium size country like Spain in just 3 or 4 years (in % it is exactly the same as if the US had received in the last 3 years 15 or 20 million of immigrants) is much more than enough. And everyone in the streets is saying it: there are too many immigrants!.

ERT writes,
What's wrong with paying a compliment to a young man whom I have found to be both reasonable and logical in his arguments? That's my opinion, ERT.

I made no comment about your arguments, ERT, because I find your premises hard to understand, and your arguments to be too convoluted. That is why I asked you about which type of immigration,legal or illegal, you were speaking about in your posts.

You have misunderstood my statement: I said to Fernando that,
"I suspect that if we do a statistical sample of crime in Spain today, it would be found that all groups commit crimes."
Please note that I said a statistical sample of crime. I did not stipulate which types of crime. Neither does it mean that the groups are equally represented. Some groups may commit more crime than others. In essense you will find that crime is committed by all types of people. Some more some less. By the same token there are various types of crimes, white collar crime can be as damaging as blue collar crime, but both are different from crimes of violence. Look at the Interpol data on crime and you can get an idea of what I mean.

In January 2002 I was in Spain for two weeks - the same time as when a young Ecuadorian man who after trying to enter the discoteque 'Maremagnum' (A well known Latin music venue!!!) with friends was attacked and died after being thrown into the waters of the port of Barcelona - the scene of the nightclub.
It made me feel sick and anxious and very confused because my experiences of Spain have been nothing short of fantastic.
A few years back I was at the same club and had a pleasant enough time, pleasant enough that I didn't want to believe the news.

ERT you must be secretly proud of this even if it did happen in Barcelona.

How many wrongs are done to both legal and illegal immigrants? But these injustices are not in 'ElMundo' who only on the whole choose to report the worst possible facets of immigration.
I wonder why?
This is obviously how all Spaniards behave to immigrants.

http://www.llacta.org/organiz/llactacaru/coms/c0016.htm

http://www.terra.es/actualidad///articulo/html/act36024.htm

To all those reading this thread, Spaniards like to behave in these racist ways and very much believe in murder and eradication as the solution to immigration and keeping Spain the pure and innocent country it is and always has been.

IS THIS A FAIR STATEMENT? IS IT?
Well i'm certainly starting to change my mind.

I understand there will be a Spain v Ecuador match soon, well I hope my bronze and black brothers kick your f****** arses!
p.s. The security guards of the club were let off and freed.Surprise surprise

ERT says

Yes look at the FACTS above and looking at it,.. yes it's a total disaster.

For once I agree with you ERT