I agree w/Jason,some of the posts regarding crime have been rather intimidating.Maybe we were just lucky, but during our 3 nights in Madrid(staying on the Plaza de Santa Ana),we saw nothing and no one even remotely suspicious.There were police patrolling the area from time to time.We took the standard precautions one would in any big city,but had no problems.Madrid is absolutely lovely.Our travel to Segovia,Avila,Salamanca,& Toledo were equally as safe.The Spaniards are refined,elegant,and courteous people.

As far as crime by persons illegally present in Spain, I have discussed this with a Spanish lawyer friend of mine. It seems that getting caught for a crime is the thing to do, since you cannot be deported while there is a criminal proceeding pending against you. And since the cases can take a long time, an arrest can act like a de facto visa...Just something else to consider.

True, but it is going to change very soon.

There is a law project to change this. It became known by the public opinion after the case of a Jugoslavian or Romanian robber and killer who was not extradited because he had comitted a crime in Spain. He was set free while waiting for the trial, and he killed a family. The husband in this family might have been related to russian mafia affairs (he had worked for them as a lawyer).

Some latin am. use to commit crimes when they are about to be deported, so that they have to go to court here. But, as I said, in some months' time this will change.

i wonder who is more paranoid/nervous - americans visiting spain or Spaniards visiting New York or LA?! although i was only in madrid for a week last year, i witnessed no incidents and always felt safe, even in Sol and other touristy areas. the only sketchy moment was when i left the Prado and wandered through the Retiro - all of a sudden i was very aware that there were very few people around and that a couple of black guys hanging out under a tree had me on radar. i kept up my brisk pace but alas was approached by one of them - a huge guy. my heart started pumping as he asked me in english where i was from. instead of running (which crossed my mind), i relaxed, and ended up chatting with him and his buddies for awhile. they were from nigeria and were selling hash, and tried their best to get me to buy. after talking for awhile i felt comfortable enough to ask one of them to take my picture with the others and handed him my expensive camera. he took the picture, handed me back my camera, we shook hands and i walked on. so how about that?!

Well, when I was in NY, New Yorkers advised me not to go to certain areas in Bronx or Harlem.

As for Madrid, the thing is, as you say that you have only been here for a week. As I posted in one forum, when I lived in the North, I came here for months and nothing happened, so I felt very safe, but one day I had to fight fiercely with a robber. A week is not enough, nor two months would, it is a small sample.

Also, not feeling in danger is not the same as not being in danger.

However, you only have to read news reports to know that there are robbed and killed people every day or week. And they do not invent it, I have been to discos and bars where some of those were killed, and the clients and neighbours knew it.

For example, I read in today's newspaper Madridymas:

- A kid aged 13 was kicked and punched on his whole body. Moncloa district.

- A man aged 34, colombian nationality, ws killed through a shot in his head yesterday night, when he was in his car.

Every day we have some of these. For a city of 3+ million people, it is not too much, but you could not say it is paradisically pacific.

Wow, Can't believe what a hot topic!!!

Well I thought Madrid was a lot safer and cleaner than originally perceived. I walked around late at night and in the rough neighborhoods. However, I walked the main streets all the time even if that took me away a little bit. Go down a narrow street and you are asking for trouble. Secondly, I always looked behind me every so often and try walking fast - this usually discourages muggings. Muggers look for easy/drunk prey at night. Lastly, if unsure about where you are walking, don't show it - walk confidently as you get your wits about you.

Now - Barcelona is another story. I was only there for a few days but there are creepy crawlers everywhere you turn. I usually tried to know where I was going instead of winging it. Two friends that I know who have lived there for a year said all their friends have been pickpocketed. I was the only one luckily. But I was only there for 2 days.

The Gypsies are more harmless - they tend to stay with pick pocketing and theft. THe Moroccans are more agressive. While taking the train, I saw one casing me out with my luggage. I looked him straight in the eye and smiled. He just smiled and shook his head.

Pamplona is very safe - although pick pockets are everywhere too. But overall very safe. Maybe I was too drunk to recognize them

Good luck to all. Spain is a great & safe place. Just carry the bare essentials and don't dress like a gringo and you'll be fine.
Use your head, be discipline in how you take your money out. Use credit cards as much as possible - easier, safer, and better exchange rate.

I am planning on staying at Hostal Plaza D'Ort in december,
but after reading alll the bad comments on plaza santa ana I am just not sure, If i was going alone I wouldnt care and would beat the crap out of anybody trying to mug me, but with my wife its a different story.

How safe is this area? Is it safer than Puerta del Sol? Which one is better?

[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: MadridMan ]