Ash - what did you do to look less touristy or a target? I'm female Asian, 5'1" and will be travelling with my male friend.

[This message has been edited by juniperchick (edited 12-15-2000).]

I was mugged one block away from my apt. in the nicest area in my city, (mIlwaukee). If it can happen here it can happen pretty much anywhere....
Although in Spain....
I bought a rosemary sprig for a few coins from a woman but nothing happened.

I dropped coins in just about every bum and blind man's hat in Madrid.

I walked the streets alone late at night down the Gran Via with a prissy white purse and didn't have any problems. Although I also didn't care because I always put anything of value, cc's, passport whatever, in my bra or even underwear if I can get away with it.

The point is to always be aware of your surroundings at all times no matter where you are in the world.

Oh, boy--here, too? There's a running post at Fodor's about crime in Spain generally and Madrid especially. I'm talking 50+ posts about not only muggings, but wildly violent stuff--knives held to throats, heads slammed into cars, hospital visits, and the like--tales so outlandish my cynical NYC mind half-suspected this was the work of some overzealous agent trying to steer tourism toward another country! Even neck pouches get the thumbs down in these postings--one woman claims to have had her shirt ripped wide open by a thief intent on reaching the thing. Still, not a lot of fun to contemplate as I plan my first trip to Spain this September/October. One of my uncles fought with the Lincoln Brigade, so I feel a certain familial connection to Spain despite my Eastern European ancestry, and I'd hate to lose that feeling! My plan is roughly 15 days total in Barcelona (where I have a friend), Madrid and Sevilla. My Spanish is decent, and as a New York woman I'm prone to dressing all in black, which I've heard will help me blend right in. But what about practical logistics? Should I go it solo, as I'd intended, or hook up with a group? If I go out with my Nikon and its two lenses, will I likely return with same? If I ditch my tiny travel pocketbook, which I generally wear around my neck and under a jacket, where exactly do I keep ANYTHING? And is it crazy to attempt to use ATMs instead of cashing travelers checks at the hotel desk? Really, I feel absurd asking these questions, but life is stressful enough--vacations simply can't be!

Thread at Fodor's is here: http://www.fodors.com/forums/

Just go to the 'Europe' forum and the Madrid post. It's # 29. I think most of those folks are just your standard tourist who really knows how to stick out in Spain. I know from experience that 'blending in' and not looking like a tourist in Madrid and Spain is the *most* important thing you can do to just avoid a bad situation. After living in Madrid and various cities around the province for 2 years ('91-'93) the only times I have been approached or had problems was when we were in a rental car or really looked like Americans.

Leche

Wow, Aphra, those stories are something else! I lived in Madrid for thirteen years ('83-'96), and I was never robbed, assaulted, insulted, bothered in any way. I felt comfortable going anywhere, usually alone. I'm too tall to be Spanish, and I was most often mistaken for a northern European instead of an American (which isn't too far off, since my parents are Dutch).

My sister, who lived in Madrid for 5 years, lost a few purses, but usually because she wasn't careful. (Example - leaving the purse on a chair when she went dancing.)

Don't let these horror stories get to you. They are not normal. As everyone says, just use common sense. As far as the ATMs go, I always used the ones inside the banks instead of the ones directly on the streets. Especially during banking hours, they are extremely safe, as there are people around, and there's almost always a bank guard by the door, which is where the ATMs tend to be. Don't bother with travellers checks. ATMs are the way to go. Dress the way you do now, wear the small pocketbook under your coat, take the Nikkon and the lenses... Personally, I'd be more worried in NYC than in Madrid!

Aphra, As you might have noticed when reading the numerous posts on this topic, unless you have your purse wide open with passport and cash hanging out and dress totally like a tourist - the odds are you will not have a problem. The standard rules apply as in any city - dress as the residents do - in Spain this means no sweats;
no baggy Ts with sayings printed on the front; baggy jeans; wear leather shoes/sandles rather than tennis shoes - you get the idea. Take a look in the topics reference clothing and individualism for follow-up comments on this sort of thing.

Your cameras should not be a problem - MM, who runs this site, hauls camcorders plus camers, lenses, etc. all over Madrid without a problem. You're a female - he isn't - but the principle is the same. Just do the best you can to blend in and don't worry.

99% of the Spaniards are kind, helpful and gracious. The other 1% - just be aware of where you are - stay out of the dark alleys; avoid women "selling" sprigs of rosemary type of thing and you'll be fine!

Thanks for the reassurance! Actually, some of what I'm reading here sort of tickles me. I wouldn't dream of wearing a T-shirt any farther from home than my laundromat (except when I was hiking in the Galapagos). I'm 41 and wear fashion scarves all the time. And the whole *leather shoe* thing had me completely perplexed about what other footwear there *could* be--you see, even my sneakers are in fact black leather! Hmmm...maybe I'm a closet Madrilena? Anyway, after reading these posts I feel I'll fit in just fine--so thanks again for a great *stress reducer*!

I've been following this thread and finally would like to add a comment. In my lifetime,I have had the opportunity to travel quite a few times to Spain and actually lived there for a year.Last summer I had to help someone get a US passport after the original one "disappeared".We arrived at US embassy early Monday morning and spent the entire day there.As we waited patiently, people exchanged their weekend experiences-I promise you I am not exxagerating.They were HORRIFIC-ranging from purses randomly snatched during the daytime,mugged in a hostel entrance to the broken car scam. This last incident is actually on the form you fill out to get a new passport.In Madrid I saw a person knocked to the ground at about 11AM in front of the cathedral San Isidro.The woman was Spanish......
I have lived in New York, Chicago,London as well as smaller towns and I know these crimes do not happen only in Madrid.It is today's Europe in general.There is now such freedom of movement in these European countries that it is getting so blatant in your face and out of control.I am so sad to have witnessed this violence in my favorite country, Spain.
Basic common sense should prevail but it is not enough. These criminals know where people keep their valuables. They have it down to an art,one holds you down, the other grabs your valuables from around your neck or waist!What to do ? I wish it was as easy as trying not to look like a tourist-it is way beyond that.My Spanish landlady shared her trick with me -she feels safer carrying her purse inside a regular grocery plastic shopping bag!
What did I learn from my all day adventure at US embassy? Make sure you make 2 copies of your passport,one for you the other at home with someone who could fax it to you.The less info you have, the longer it takes and the more it costs! Carry very little cash,use your credit card/ATMs. Check the back of your cards-they must have the words Cirrus or Plus in order to work in ATMs. Here's the catch,you must pay for your passport in CASH.So you just got mugged,as did a family of five from San Francisco in front of the Royal Palace-5 passports needed but they only had enough change for three...I lent them my phone to call home for money.
Even thes incidents cannot dampen my love affair with Spain!I am going again this May. I will stay in a hotel away from the tourist areas with my bargain cell phone($40),credit cards and plastic grocery bag!And I will have a great time-it's still Spain!

Ok I'm totaly freaked out about our trip to Madrid in February. We are staying at Hostal TIJCAL, they offered a discount for cash, does this mean we will be robbed out side of the hotel? We have traveled in Rome, Paris, London with no problem... but this sounds bad. The Hostal TIJCAL is located next to Plaza Mayor at metro stop Palaxa de la Provincia. Any suggestions other than the usual?

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First things first, but not necessarly in that order.

I just returned from my holidays in Spain and Portugal, stayed at Hostal Tijcal. The credit card company normally charges for administrative fee to the establishments that's why paying by cash, you get a discount.

The location is fantastic, even though it's next to Plaza Mayor. Not once did I feel unsafe around the hostal area. It's a couple of minutes walk down to the Sol metro. The only thing is that you have to be really careful about the pickpockets.

I saw a gang of them pickpocketing a Japanese guy. Another guy in our group (we were on the Walks of Spain tour), grabbed the money from the pickpocketter and he grabbed it back. The guy looked mean and nasty and another member of the gang stood by threateningly. If it weren't for the fact that there was a bunch of us and we were outside a bar, I think we would have gotten into serious trouble. We were told later that these people were known to have stabbed the ones that resist.

You just have to be really aware of your surroundings, be smart, don't leave your money where it's easy to pick. If you feel like a group of people are closing in on you, move away as quickly as possible.

In short, just be street smart and you'll be fine.