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#29900 - 12/02/02 02:54 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Espe3 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 511
Thank you Shawn, the point I was trying to make! smile
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#29901 - 12/02/02 03:28 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
SRedw Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 200

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#29902 - 12/02/02 03:30 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
taravb Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 736
Loc: Ames, Iowa, USA
What an interesting thread...I guess my feelings about this topic are sort of mixed. On the one hand, I recognize that language is fluid and constantly evolving. Nappies and prams in England become diapers and strollers in the USA, and we Americans don't live in flats, we live in apartments. There are countless other regional variations even within our country--pop/soda/coke, sub/hoagie/hero, etc. So although I don't like hearing "parquear" or other mutant Spanglish words, I understand that they serve a purpose for bilingual people or for communities that exist within larger English-speaking society. When I lived in Miami and spoke castellano, people laughed at me and called me a snob. On the other hand, some of my second-generation Cuban friends would look out the window and announce, "esta raining!" Ugh!

I guess as long as language education includes the proper forms of words, what people speak on the street doesn't bother me too much. We all use slang and various colloquial expressions in our day-to-day conversations, and we can just hope that we really know better when it comes time to write a college paper or sit down for a job interview. (I am a college teacher--I know this is pure fantasy on my part!).

That said, the fact that some CORPORATE ADVERTISING DEPARTMENT gets to pick (or create!) a word and spread it around where it's not currently in use is really troublesome. Language will continue to evolve, but who wants the engine of evolution to be the Frito-Lay corporation?

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#29903 - 12/02/02 03:42 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
I would really want all spaniards to speak english, the same way I would want (for example) all americans to speak spanish. What I can't accept is a medium term in which you can't properly speak english nor spanish, but a mix without any synthactical rules and a mixed vocabulary.

If there is people who can speak six or more languages, why can't people do the effort to speak spanish and english properly? These two languages are spoken in dozens of countries by more than 20% of the world population. They open doors by themselves to find good jobs!

Globalization would enrich almost every language (and perhaps destroy some other marginally used), but we should be able to manage this enrichment rationally. A good rule is only accepting a forgein word when there is no equivalent word in the given language.

Some accepted words from english in spanish: eslogan (from slogan), lifting, prefabricado, inflación (from inflation), vagón (wagon), raíl (rail), fútbol, (from football), mítin (meeting), estándar (from standard), hobby, ...

I also know two spanish words which are accepted in english (and almost in any widely used language): siesta and fiesta. May someone tell us more? smile

Fernando

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#29904 - 12/02/02 03:55 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
taravb Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 736
Loc: Ames, Iowa, USA
Ah, Fernando, you're right...siesta and fiesta are two of the most important words in ANY language! smile Parties and sleeping...mmm!!!

I am sure there are tons of other Spanish words or words derived from Spanish in modern English usage--after all, many words must have progressed from Latin to Spanish to English, right?

In my home state of Florida, Spanish words are everywhere, of course--and not just in South Florida. I grew up in Jacksonville, and many of our roads, schools, etc. have Spanish names (which, of course, we mispronounced horribly, with our American Southern accents!).

Here are a few Spanish words we use in English:

patio, Florida, plaza, sierra, Nevada, rodeo, armadillo, tortilla (we use this in the Latin American way, as a flat corn or wheat flour bread), hasta luego, adios, pronto, casa, mano a mano, mosquito, piñata, pueblo, salsa, vamos/vamonos, aficionado, armada, macho...I'm sure there are many, many more.

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#29905 - 12/02/02 04:22 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
ELECTRACITY Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 144
Loc: CANADA
Spanish words in English? I can think of a few and believe it or not I find them all the time:

adios (from adiós)
adobe (originally Coptic tobe, "brick")
aficionado
albino
alcove (from Spanish alcoba, originally Arabic al-qubba)
alfalfa (originally Arabic al-fasfasah. Many other English words beginning with "al" were originally Arabic, and many may have had a Spanish-language connection in becoming English.)
alligator (from el lagarto, "the lizard")
alpaca (animal similar to a llama, from Aymara allpaca)
armadillo (literally, "the little armed one")
armada
arroyo (English regionalism for "stream")
avocado (originally a Nahuatl word, ahuacatl)
banana (word, originally of African origin, entered English via either Spanish or Portuguese)
bandoleer (type of belt, from bandolera)
barracuda
barbecue (from barbacoa, a word of Caribbean origin)
bizarre (some sources, not all, say this word came from the Spanish bizarro)
bonanza (although the Spanish bonanza can be used synonymously with the English cognate, it more often means "calm seas" or "fair weather")
booby (from bobo, meaning "silly" or "selfish")
bravo (from either Italian or Old Spanish)
bronco (means "wild" or "rough" in Spanish)
buckaroo (possibly from vaquero, "cowboy")
bunco (probably from banco, "bank")
burrito (literally "little donkey")
burro
cafeteria (from cafetería)
caldera (geological term)
canary (Old Spanish canario entered English by way of French canarie)
canasta (the Spanish word means "basket")
cannibal (originally of Caribbean origin)
canoe (the word was originally Caribbean)
canyon (from cañon)
cargo (from cargar, "to load")
castanet (from castañeta)
chaparral (from chaparro, an evergreen oak)
chaps (from Mexican Spanish chaparreras)
chihuahua (dog breed named after Mexican city and state)
chile relleno (Mexican food)
chili (from chile, derived from Nahuatl chilli)
chili con carne (con carne means "with meat")
chocolate (originally xocolatl, from Nahuatl, an indigenous Mexican language)
churro (Mexican food
cigar, cigarette (from cigarro)
cilantro
cinch (from cincho, "belt")
cocaine (from coca, from Quechua k&uacuate;ka)
cockroach (Two English words, "cock" and "roach," were combined to form "cockroach." It is believed, but isn't certain, that the words were chosen because of their similarity to the Spanish cucaracha.)
coco (type of tree, from icaco, originally Arawak ikaku from the Caribbean)
comrade (from camarada, "roommate")
conquistador
condor (originally from Quechua, an indigenous South American language)
corral
coyote (from the Nahuatl coyotl)
criollo (indigenous to South America)
dengue (Spanish imported the word from Swahili)
desperado
dorado (type of fish)
El Niño (weather pattern, means "The Child" due to its appearance around Christmas)
embargo (from embargar, to bar)
enchilada (participle of enchilar, "to season with chili")
fajita (diminutive of faja, a belt or sash, probably so named due to strips of meat)
fiesta (in Spanish, it can mean a party, a celebration, a feast — or a fiesta)
filibuster (from filibustero, derived from Dutch vrijbuiter, "pirate")
flan (a type of custard)
flauta (a fried, rolled tortilla)
flotilla
frijol (English regionalism for a bean)
galleon (from Spanish galeón)
garbanzo (type of bean)
guacamole (originally from Nahuatl ahuacam, "avocado," and molli, "sauce")
guerrilla (In Spanish, the word refers to a small fighting force. A guerrilla fighter is a guerrillero.)
hammock (from jamaca, a Caribbean Spanish word)
habanero (a type of pepper; in Spanish, the word refers to something from Havana)
hacienda (in Spanish, the initial h is silent)
huarache (type of sandal)
hurricane (from huracán, originally an indigenous Caribbean word)
hoosegow (slang term for a jail comes from Spanish juzgado, participle of juzgar, "to judge")
iguana (originally from Arawak and Carib iwana)
incomunicado
jaguar (from Spanish and Portuguese, originally from Guarani yaguar)
jalapeño
jicama (originally from Nahuatl)
lariat (from la reata, "the lasso")
lasso (from lazo)
llama (originally from Quechua)
machete
machismo, macho (macho usually means simply "male" in Spanish)
maize (from maíz, originally from Arawak mahíz) manatee (from manatí, originally from Carib)
mano a mano (literally, "hand to hand")
margarita (from a woman's name)
matador (literally, "killer")
marijuana (usually mariguana or marihuana in Spanish)
mesa (In Spanish it means "table," but it also can mean "tableland," the English meaning.)
margarita (a woman's name meaning "daisy")
mariachi
menudo (Mexican food)
mesquite (tree name originally from Nahuatl mizquitl
mestizo
mole (Unfortunately, the name for this delightful chocolate-chili dish is sometimes misspelled as "molé" in English in an attempt to prevent mispronunciation.)
mosquito
mulatto (from mulato)
mustang (from mestengo, "stray")
nacho
nada
negro (comes from either the Spanish or Portuguese word for the color black)
nopal (type of cactus, from Nahuatl nohpalli)
ocelot (originally Nahuatl oceletl; the word was adopted into Spanish and then French before becoming an English word)
olé (in Spanish, the word can be used in places other than bullfights)
oregano (from orégano)
paella (a savory Spanish rice dish)
palomino (originally meant a white dove in Spanish)
papaya (originally Arawak)
patio (In Spanish, the word most often refers to a courtyard.)
peccadillo (from pecadillo, diminutive of pecado, "sin")
peso (Although in Spanish a peso is also a monetary unit, it more generally means a weight.)
peyote (originally Nahuatl peyotl)
picaresque (from picaresco)
pickaninny (offensive term, from pequeño, "small")
pimento (Spanish pimiento)
pinole (a meal made of grain and beans; originally Nahuatl pinolli)
pinta (tropical skin disease)
pinto (Spanish for "spotted" or "painted")
piñata
piña colada (literally meaning "strained pineapple")
piñon (type of pine tree, sometimes spelled "pinyon")
plantain (from plátano or plántano)
plaza
poncho (Spanish adopted the word from Araucanian, an indigenous South American language)
potato (from batata, a word of Caribbean origin)
pronto (from an adjective or adverb meaning "quick" or "quickly"
pueblo (in Spanish, the word can mean simply "people")
punctilio (from puntillo, "little point," or possibly from Italian puntiglio)
puma (originally from Quechua)
quadroon (from cuaterón)
quesadilla
quirt (type of riding whip, comes from Spanish cuarta)
ranch (Rancho often means "ranch" in Mexican Spanish, but it can also mean a settlement, camp or meal rations.)
reefer (drug slang, possibly from Mexican Spanish grifa, "marijuana")
remuda (regionalism for a relay of horses)
renegade (from renegado)
rodeo
salsa (In Spanish, almost any kind of a sauce or gravy can be referred to as salsa.)
sarsaparilla (from zarza, "bramble," and parilla, "small vine")
sassafras (from sasafrás)
savanna (from obsolete Spanish çavana, originally Taino zabana, "grassland")
savvy (from sabe, a form of the verb saber, "to know")
serape (Mexican blanket)
serrano (type of pepper)
shack (possibly from Mexican Spanish jacal, from the Nahuatl xcalli, "adobe hut")
siesta
silo
sombrero (In Spanish, the word, which is derived from sombra, "shade," can mean almost any kind of hat, not just the traditional broad-rimmed Mexican hat.)
spaniel (ultimately from hispania, the same root that gave us the words "Spain" and español)
stampede (from estampida)
stockade (from a French derivation of the Spanish estacada, "fence" or "stockade")
tobacco (from tabaco, a word possibly of Caribbean origin)
taco (In Spanish, a taco can refer to a stopper, plug or wad. In other words, a taco originally meant a wad of food. Indeed, in Mexico, the variety of tacos is almost endless, far more varied than the beef, lettuce and cheese combination of U.S.-style fast food.)
tamale (The Spanish singular for this Mexican dish is tamal. The English comes from an erroneous backformation of the Spanish plural, tamales.)
tamarillo (type of tree, derived from tomatillo, a small tomato)
tango
tequila (named after a Mexican town of the same name)
tejano (type of music)
tomatillo
tomato (from tomate, derived from Nahuatl tomatl)
toreador
tornado (from tronada, thunderstorm)
tortilla (in Spanish, an omelet often is a tortilla)
tuna (from atún)
vamoose (from vamos, a form of "to go""Vamonos")
vanilla (from vainilla)
vaquero (English regionalism for a cowboy)
vicuña (animal similar to a llama, from Quechua wikuña)
vigilante (from adjective for "vigilant")
wrangler (some sources say word is derived from Mexican Spanish caballerango, one who grooms horses, while other sources say the word comes from German)
zapateado (a type of dance emphasizing movement of the h
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#29906 - 12/02/02 04:41 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Espe3 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 511
Try latin!
But not the same thing. Those are words that exist, and have a meaning, and were adapted (my example of software, hardware) not made up just to be cute.

As far as latin spanish, mexican spanish, I don't know. I don't speak that.

But many of the words you listed... well, since parts of the US were at one time colonized by the Spanish, I see that as logical. Colorado, Florida, California and a bunch of states were named by the Spanish also. I'm not arguing this, but it doesn't make sense that its absorbed into Spain or its mainstream- made up words, for what/!? Like we don't know how to speak? English is not our heritage, spanish is. That can't be said of the US. There is alot of spanish in its heritage.
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#29907 - 12/02/02 05:04 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
ELECTRACITY Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 144
Loc: CANADA
You are right about the heritage. I agree. The French have argued the same about the invasion of english words "weekend, parking etc". I am against the "anglaiszing" of Spanish.

PS: Some of the words in the list are Spanish. Others have a much stronger connection, as you mentioned, to Latin.

PSS: Here is a good one. In square dancing, the guy says "doo si doo". Thats spanish, "Dos y dos" = two by two.
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#29908 - 12/02/02 05:51 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
eek What a bunch of words!!

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#29909 - 12/02/02 06:42 PM Re: Doritos and 'Dipear'?!?!
Shawn Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/28/00
Posts: 308
Loc: mentally - Spain, Physically -...
One of the most important factors in binding people together is a common language. Those who have adopted spanglish as their tounge have turned their backs to hundereds of years of history. The Spanish and English languages have such important literary and cultural legacies that it is repugnant to witness the movement toward spanglish. I would dread a day when "native" speakers of Spanish would have to read Quijote, El Cid, or La Celestina in translation. Just as anglophones should regect rewriting King Lear in Ebonics or bumpkin babble.

Spanglish does not encourage greater contact between the two rich cultural traditions, it stifles it. By excepting this mongrol language, you encourage people to eschew the rich linguistic links that are fundamental to greater mutual understanding. We should advocate learning both great languages, so that we continue to share the riches of our respective traditions.

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