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#17489 - 02/01/08 08:51 PM renfe expands... very interesting
JA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/28/01
Posts: 116
Loc: usa
Train in Spain sets out to beat the plane
Madrid-Barcelona link is part of 220mph network taking on the airlines

Paul Hamilos in Madrid
Saturday February 2, 2008
Guardian

Delays and disruption, disgruntled passengers left standing on platforms, accusations of political incompetence and financial mismanagement: the development of the Spanish railway system has a number of things in common with its British counterpart. But when the new high-speed link between Madrid and Barcelona sets off later this month, those complaints will be set aside as the super-slick Ave S103 service carves its way through the Spanish countryside at speeds of nearly 220mph.
The Ave S103 is the kind of train that British commuters can only dream of, and forms the centrepiece of plans to make Spain a model for the rest of Europe, and the world leader in high-speed trains by 2010.

Its 200-metre aluminium chassis carries 404 passengers, whose reclining chairs - which can swivel to face the direction of travel - are fitted with video and music players.

"They are the future of travel in Spain and show that the train is anything but obsolete," said Aberlado Carrillo, the director general of the state rail operator Renfe's high-speed service. "Trains will again be the dominant mode of transport in this country."

In its first term in office, the socialist government of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero has spent €21bn (£15.7bn) as part of a 15-year €108bn project to transform the rail network. Around 70% of this will be spent on the Ave (short for Alta Velocidad Española, or Spanish high speed).

The aim is to have 10,000km (6,200 miles) of high-speed track in Spain by 2020, meaning that 90% of the population will be no more than 30 miles from a station through which the train passes.

The Barcelona line is to be extended to Perpignan in France, making the Catalan capital just four-and-a-half hours from Paris. Work to join Madrid and Lisbon is under way.

December saw the opening of lines connecting Madrid to Valladolid and to Málaga, which have slashed journey times and proved hugely popular. Carrillo describes the success of these two lines as "unprecedented and well ahead of what we expected. Traffic has doubled on the Málaga line, and grown by 75% on the Valladolid line."

The distinction between the Spanish and British models of investment, says Christian Wolmar, the author of a history of Britain's railways, comes from conflicting philosophies of rail's worth.

"We ignore the social values of trains," he says. "Just as we don't expect motorways to pay their own way, we shouldn't expect trains to.

"All the recent legislation in the UK, with privatisation, franchising and the complex structures of investment, has meant that it is impossible to have a rational transport policy to maximise the use of trains for environmental and economic reasons."

But, says Carrillo: "The Ave has to be profitable. From 2010, it will not receive any public subsidies. Our experience of the Madrid-Seville line is that it will be profitable."

The success of the Madrid-Seville corridor - the first high-speed link, which opened in 1992 - is partly a result of its pricing policy, with affordable tickets that help to keep demand high and trains full. The 290-mile journey takes two-and-a-half hours, and costs between €28.90 (£21.60) and €72.20 (£53.95) - prices that might make British travellers green with envy.

It will be the Madrid-Barcelona connection, though, that will test the high-speed service. Business people in Spain's two largest cities, with a combined population of 10 million, have been crying out for the Ave for decades. But its development has not been without problems. The inauguration was delayed by landslides that brought chaos to Barcelona's commuter service, as contractors rushed to finish the line at the end of last year.

When it finally gets running, the S103 will cover the 410 miles to Barcelona in two hours and 35 minutes, taking two hours off the journey time. But it will face stiff competition from the highly successful air-shuttle, with a route that is one of the busiest in the world.

The "air bridge" operated by Iberia airlines allows passengers to turn up at the airport, buy a ticket, and board, within 20 minutes. Iberia alone has 60 flights a day, carrying 8,000 people.

Antonio Mayo, who is in charge of the service, is not worried by the train. "We have faced competition from other airlines before, and we welcome the fight with the Ave," he says.

"We can offer one thing they cannot - time. In normal circumstances, a businessman can get from his house in Madrid to a meeting in Barcelona in under two-and-a-half hours. The train cannot do this."

Mayo accepts that Iberia will take a hit in the first few months, but he believes that an executive who needs to be in a meeting at 9am will always choose to fly.

Carrillo argues that the comparison between train and plane is a false one. "Time spent in a train is time won, while in a plane it is wasted," he says. "In a train you can work, read, talk, use the internet, eat, or simply relax and enjoy the journey. With a plane, the only objective is to arrive.

"Personally, I am not bothered if the plane arrives 20 minutes earlier than the train. The question is how that time has been used."

The fact that more than 80% of travellers choose the Ave over the plane on the route between Madrid and Seville supports his argument.

There is also the environmental question: trains produce at least four times less carbon dioxide per mile than planes, and even less when compared with short-haul flights. Spain is preparing itself for a future in which there may be limits on the number of flights a person is allowed to take, particularly within the EU.

In the end, says Carrillo, it will come down to the quality of the service: "What we are offering is unavailable in the rest of Europe in terms of comfort, speed and punctuality."

Look away now if you are a British commuter used to mind-numbing delays: if an Ave train arrives more than five minutes late, passengers are reimbursed the full price of their ticket. And the only problem for those hoping to get their money back is that the trains are nearly 98% reliable.

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian News and Media Limited 2008
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#17490 - 02/02/08 05:44 AM Re: renfe expands... very interesting
Jamongris Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 279
Loc: Madrid, from London
Thanks for posting that article JA. It's very interesting but also very one sided, both in terms of the Spanish v British railway network debate, and the plain v train debate.

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#17491 - 02/02/08 08:45 AM Re: renfe expands... very interesting
CascadaDuSel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 224
Loc: Tampa, FL (sometimes Madrid - ...
With the opening of the fast service to Malaga it is now faster for us (and loads cheaper) for us to fly into Madrid and take the train to Malaga instead of flying from Madrid to Malaga to get to our house in Almeria. I think the train ticket is around 75 euros ... about the same as a plane ticket but we save the airport hassle. And it is much more pleasant to travel with a baby on the train isntead of a plane!!
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#17492 - 02/07/08 08:56 AM Re: renfe expands... very interesting
blueterrier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 45
How can you say its a very one sided argument, in England we have nothing that will touch the AVE.
For example, on numerous occasions we have bought tickets at Atocha for travel on the same day to Seville at a cost of approx £70, if you were to walk into a station in England and buy a ticket for the same day travelling a similar distance the price would easily be treble that, as for comfort and bar facilities the AVE far outshines any rolling stock we have in this fair Isle

Viva AVE clap

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#17493 - 02/07/08 12:16 PM Re: renfe expands... very interesting
Valenciano_en_Madrid Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Majadahonda (Madrid)
Hi!
Probably British people don't need the high speed trains because the UK is an island wich size is less than a half of the Spanish size, so distances are much shorter. I am sure that your country could have a much better system than AVE, with any doubt the UK is much wealthier and more technologicaly advanced than Spain.

In any case, I have traveled to France, Portugal, Turkey, Germany, Italy, Austria, Ireland and the UK and I can say, at least that's my opinion, that Spanish public transports are really good compared to others. This fact is against the stereotype about the Spanish ineficiency and its lack of development.
I am looking forward to the completion of the Madrid-Valencia line in 2010 wich will cover the 220 miles betwen the two cities in only one hour and a half. They also will expand the 90 years old Valencia station.

New Estación Central de Valencia
http://www.descubrelaaltavelocidad.com/

Saludos
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Damián

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#17494 - 02/08/08 04:12 AM Re: renfe expands... very interesting
MadridMan Offline


Executive Member

Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 9080
Loc: Madrid, Spain (was Columbus, O...
And soon (probably in 10 years!), a high-speed Barcelona-Málaga train will be open - and WILL NOT go through Madrid! eek Imagine that!

Saludos, MadridMan
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#17495 - 02/08/08 05:22 AM Re: renfe expands... very interesting
Jamongris Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 279
Loc: Madrid, from London
I think Valenciano has illustrated there is always another point of view, and I would like to say that I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with the sentiments of the article, just that I found it one sided.

What I actually objected to was the last paragraph, as the AVE is not really a commuter train. While some people will use it from say Toledo or Segovia to Madrid on a daily basis, the majority of railway commuters will use the Cercanias. As someone who has commuted regularly by train in both London on the surburban services, and Madrid, I find the Madrid cercanias overcrowded, slow, unpunctual and infrequent, although I concede they are inexpensive too.

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#17496 - 02/08/08 03:33 PM Re: renfe expands... very interesting
Valenciano_en_Madrid Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Majadahonda (Madrid)
Jamongris, I agree with you, the article was very one sided. You know, journalists allways want to get reader's attention.
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#17497 - 02/10/08 03:22 AM Re: renfe expands... very interesting
Jamongris Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 279
Loc: Madrid, from London
They do indeed Valenciano.

As it happens I live quite near the new Madrid-Valladolid section. Here's a couple of photos I took about three years ago of an enourmous viaduct that has been built across what was a pretty valley. The mountain behind is called San Pedro, is the highest in the area and reaches 5,500 feet AMSL. The railway now goes stright through it in a tunnel.



And facing the other way it goes through the Sierra Norte. I believe, and this is probably one for Torrales, that this is now the longest railway tunnel in Spain, but don't quote me on that.


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