Tips on pronouncing the dreaded "RR"

Tara's (to give proper credit ) insight on pronouncing the "rr" deserves its own thread!!!

As someone (when not rushed or flustered - heh heh) who can pronounce most Spanish sounds (nevermind the unavoidable trace of gringo accent ) correctly, the "rr" is a source of CONSTANT frustration.

Tara's suggestion of "pot of tea" ... "para ti" ... to at least mask a glaring error was priceless!!! Please, please, please, anyone and everyone offer their suggestions here.

There must be many success stories out there as it's no secrect this is problem many of us face...

Thanks!

Hey, thanks, JJP...I wish I could remember which Spanish teacher had suggested that, so that I could pass the credit along!

It takes some work to train our American tongues to "roll" like that! I can now do a semi-sustained "rrrrrrrr" sound, which I never could before. My sister, on the other hand, doesn't speak a bit of Spanish and can "rrrrrrrr" away like a purring cat!

Buena suerrrrrrrrrte (oops...got stuck!)--
Tara

Tara, an interesting point about your sister. As I am clearly one not born with this genetic gift I came to delevop this crack-pot idea on the propensity to rooollll the tounge.

Thinking that genetics must play a roll (ha - sorry for the pun!) I reasoned that those who can curl their tounge had been delt the gift of the roll. As I can't curl thy tounge I have this idea I'll just have to find an alternative way to generate the sound.

To my surprise, like many sounds in the English language, many children in Spanish speaking cultures don't automatically develop this sound. Some children really have to be coached ... err, taught ... how to generate the desired effect.

For example, the tounge-twister "ferrocarril" is often used. This is great, but I need the proverbial bridge. Do they sell "Hooked-on-Phonics" for Spanish - ha ha !!!!

Hi, again, JJP--
But I *CAN* roll my tongue, and couldn't make the "rr" sound before practicing with the "pot of tea" trick. I think my sister can roll her tongue too. I remember her doing this horribly annoying "rrrrrrrrrr" sound for what seemed like hours on road trips (she's 3 years younger and used to be a pest!).

I have tried to practice with "ferrocarril" as well, but that's one that I still can't do!!

I posted about this in another thread somewhere, but I wonder what sounds native Spanish-speakers have trouble with when learning English? Maybe we can exchange advice! The only one I know is the "es" in English words that start with "s" (so "esmall" for "small"), which I think must have to do with the "s plus consonant" combination.

Tara,

Great idea on using this thread as an exchange of advice and help on our languages.

There is a lot an English speaker can learn - in my opinion - from listening to, let's say, a Spaniard's or Mexican's different accents in English. I've found these provide windows to how I should speak Spanish. For example, a friend from Mexico City says the English "yes" as "'j'yes." If I were to want to pick this accent up I'd put that sublte soft 'j' with words starting with "y."

I have friends with the attitude I should speak the Spanish version, and most who want me to Sound Latin American. A friend once said to me that is one of the great aspects to becoming bilingual (for her, trilingual: Japenese, American English, and España Spanish) is you can decide how you want to speak and sound. The "wild-west" Mexican drawl, the sing-y Colombianisms, the strong Argentine "ll" ("czha"), or whatever!!!

But I degress ... any help you all want to provide me on ways to "visualize" and generate the "rr" sound ... someone care to articulate how the tounge is placed in the (heh heh - this is ripe for a misinterpretation - heh heh) mouth ...

This should get interesting. Any Spaniards want to discuss their difficulties with English phonetics ???

[ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: JJP ]

Oddly enough, I was never able to roll my "rr" through six years of school Spanish. The teacher I had suggested I continually say the words "ladder" and "butter" to "loosen la lengua" and prepare my mouth.

It was not until I went to Spain for the first time that I was able to pull it off, though...even though I think that my ladders and butter had something to do with it.

As for genetics, I know it's not that...as I was completely unable to pronounce the sound [until my oral-palatal surgery....ha! :D], and now I can...perhaps the "cure" is just to go to Spain!!! [Of course we all know that's the cure for a LOT of what ails you!]

Any suggestions for the deep "j" sound?. I don´t smoke, but perhaps only Ducados or Celts can produce this deep gravely sound. I can´t seem to break out of the English "h" sound for this letter. The "rr" is fairly easy for me, it reminds me of the Scotish burr- so think of how Sean Connery would say it

Hi, Shawn--
I can't do the "j" either--it either sounds like I am clearing my throat or beginning to choke. I tried and tried while studying in Spain, but it never seemed to work. My teacher made me listen to Julio Iglesias songs over and over again for practice/punishment.

Tara