the marriage process?

Does anyone know how long the the marriage process takes in spain and what documents might be needed? Also does anyone know how long it takes to get a work permit after you get married? After reading these boards it seems like a few people have taken that path and a few others, like madridman, are on their way.

Assuming you are a U.S. citizen and are marrying a Spaniard, you should first obtain a pamphlet published by the U.S. Embassy in Spain. It clearly spells out all of the necessary steps you'll need to take in order to process the paperwork. Spain publishes a similar form if you wish to compare them (we had both just to be sure).
My memory may not be the best as I was applying for 4 different things at the time; I may be confusing some of them.
The most time consuming step was to obtain a copy of your birth certificate with an official seal (can't remember the name of the seal). If I'm not mistaken, you also need a letter from your bank stating how many years you have been with them. I can't think of much else (unless you've been divorced?) that you would need that you probably don't already have. Please get the brochure as it spells everything out. The Spaniard needs some documents (like the "enpadronamiento" and those were actually what held us up a day or two.
Once you have all of your paperwork in line, you need to take it to the "registro civil". They will sit down with you, go over the paperwork to see that everything is in order, and give you a date to return. If you plan to get married outside of the boundaries of your registro civil, you need to take the final paperwork to the registro civil where you plan to get married. Are you planning a civil wedding or a church wedding?
We were engaged in April, filed late June, and were married at the end of August. I would allow yourself a good two months after you file the initial paperwork, especially if you have people planning a trip from the U.S. A friend of mine "got" married in Morocco and the paperwork hadn't gone through in time and everyone had a really expensive bachelor party!
To answer your work permit question, there's a thread with lots of info:

http://www.madridman.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000148

Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.

Hi Nevado and Roe --

The seal is called the Apostille Seal or Apostulate Seal. I am not sure where in Spain you would go to get such documents sealed. I know in Pennsylvania you can mail the document(s) that you want to have the seal placed upon along with payment (no cash) and postage paid return envelope to the office in Harrisburg (state capital) and they will seal the docs and send them back to you. They say it´s a 15 day turn around for domestic mail. I would allow at least a month. Sorry I can´t address the questions regarding other docs needed to be married in Spain as we were married in the states.

I do highly recommend a visit to the US Embassy in Madrid (or consulate in Barcelona) to get the matters clarified.

Good luck!
chica

Hey Chica, that's the seal! I think you have to send the birth certificate to the state in which you were born. After I sent mine they said I was in luck because they still had the signature stamp of the gov. who was in office when I was born. I don't know what happens if they no longer have the signature stamp; it seems a bit funny to me not to have them around? It's not everyday someone requests the seal and certainly not soon after birth (for marriage that is)!

Does anyone know if they have this pamphlet on the web, or if they will mail it? I am far away from madrid or barcalona. Is there any equivilant of Las Vegas around Europe where you can just get married on the spot? What about getting married to foreigners in the US? Is it easier? I couldn´t really tell from what they said in the link above. We just want to get the paperwork so that I can get a work permit to work in Spain.

Does anyone know anything about becoming a "pareja de hecho"? Someone recomended looking into this as a way to get a residency/work visa. I am a US citezen and my girlfriend is a spanish citizen.

I found out that to do a "pareja de hecho", all an american needs is their passporte (this is what the woman at the local ayuntamiento told me). Does anyone out there know if I do this they will give me residency and/or a work visa? Supposedly you are supposed to have the same rights as a married couple.

The "pareja de hecho" register is the responsibility of the local town hall. The Spanish parliament is still bogged down debating a legal formula to provide for such unions, so there is as yet no national register, and each ayuntamiento does as it seems fit. Registering as a pareja will give you some of the trappings of marriage and rights. But work permits and residency are still controlled by central government, and registering at your local town hall won't help there I'm afraid. Perhaps things will change in a year or two....

Nevado?? I emailed the U.S. Embassy of Spain, and tried to get information(pamplet)on what I, a US citizen and still living in the US, need to do before marrying a Spaniard in Spain, and I was emailed back that I need to contact the Embassy of Spain in the US, and so I did. The woman there told me that she didn't know if they have any info on marrying a Spaniard in Spain, but knows that to get a visa, I have to marry him first, then come back here to apply for the visa, and if I want any information on marrying a Spaniard, then I need to contact the U.S. Embassy in Spain. SO, as you can see, I am right back where I've started from . So if you have anymore info on what I am trying to find, can you please let me know Thank you so much
Oh, I know it would be easier for my Spaniard to get married here, in the US,(I was told), but I really want to be married in Spain.
Thanks

LittleWind,
If I were you I would get marry in a catholic church. Ask your Spanish boyfriend to go to El Obispado de Madrid and ask them to explain him all the process. The church will take care of the civil papers too. After the wedding they will give you a paper and ask you to go to "el registro civil" to get your "libro de familia"
My sister in law was living in spain without a visa for one year. it seems ther is a law that says that if you are married to an Spaniard you have the right to live and work in Spain, with or without visa. We went to CCOO (Comisiones Obreras) in Paseo del Prado and they gave her a document saying she had the right to live and work in spain. We Went to INEM with it and they accepted it. Once you are there go to immigration to get your visa (long process).
I went through all of this as a Spaniard and my sister in law as an American. You can contact her an ask her about her experience. Her name is Tracy Moral and you can contact her through http://www.expatriatecafe.com She is great and very helpful.
Nuria

Thank you so much Nuria! I will take your advice and contact your sister-in-law. I am Catholic, but I was born and Baptized in Germany, and had my Communion when I lived in New York, but never did do my Confirmation, plus I don't have any papers stating all of this, so I don't know if there would be a problem with that. So I will check with your sister-in-law and see if she has any advice for me on this(hope so ).
Smile!

For those interested in getting married in Spain try this link. It is only in Spanish (sorry)

http://www.ciberboda.com/PAGS/SERVICIOS/TRAMITE.htm#CIV

LittleWing, I can't believe the Embassy in Spain told you that. Figures! Try going to the registro civil and asking for the papers that explain the necessary steps (or have your fiancee go if you're not in Spain). My husband picked the information up there (and I got it from the Embassy in Madrid). We compared the information and they indeed were the same (one in English, the other in Spanish). I'll do some digging this weekend to see if I can find the pamphlet I was talking about. In the meantime, start by getting the seal on your birth certificate while you try and get a straight answer. That process will take a couple/few weeks. When were you planning on getting married? It really is painless once you get a straight answer (that seems to be the hard part, doesn't it?).

Thanks Nevado for the info. And to answer your question to when, well, I will say that I will hopefully have a clearer picture by the end of the summer, or the end of the year, so at least I don't have to panick and feel that pressure of rushing things. Since I was born in Germany and don't have an original copy of my birth certificate, it will probably take time just with that alone, nevermind everything else, so that is why I am starting now. Anyway, when the time comes that I will move to Spain, trust me, I will let everyone know, because I will be sooooo happy!! I am also one that is in-love with Spain, so my biggest wish and my only goal in life now, is to be with the love of my life, and live in Spain, so time will tell....

LittleWind, just a thougth... do you have a german passport? That way since you are "European" you might not need a visa. My cousin from Venezuela has an spanish passport and now he is living in England.

No Nuria, I only have a US passport, and left a message in your private mail box.

Well, after searching high and low, I couldn't come up with the specific information you and your fiancée need although I did find the documents I used. Once you get your birth certificate and the Apostille stamp, you need to translate it into Spanish and take it to the Spanish Consulate. They will certify that your translation is correct and stamp it. I also found the letter from my bank stating that I had been a member for X amount of years (don't ask me what that proves, it doesn't state anything that I would consider relevant).
It sounds like you're going about this the right way; you've got plenty of time! Once you get your birth certificate it will be a piece of cake.
It really was easy getting married in Spain so don't get discouraged! Plan a wonderful wedding and let me know if you need a good photographer for the wedding- I scoured Madrid for a personable photographer who would adapt to my needs and found a great one!

Hi just me popping in here again. For what it´s worth, I never had any of my docs (birth certificate, certificate of being single -- whatever it´s called -- or anything else) translated into Spanish. Your best bet is to call the Consulate ahead of time, get someone on the phone who deals with the immigration stuff (and get their name so you can ask for them when you get to the consulate), and have that person spell out for you specifically what docs you will need and whether or not you will need them translated.

I say this only from personal experience from when I returned to the states to apply for and pick up my visa allowing me to stay in Spain. The website gave a list of about 7 documents needed. We were told on the phone that only 4 of them were actually required with a $45 fee. When I got to the consulate, they only asked me for two of them and waived the fee altogether. I was pleased with that until I had to pay my parking which was nearly as much in NYC!

Good luck!

So Chica, are you saying that even if you get married to a spanish citizen you still have to return to the USA to get your work visa and/or residency cards?

Roe --

This is our story. My husband is a Spanish citizen. Never lived in the USA. I am a USA citizen. He and his family (God bless their souls) flew to the states for a week last year for our wedding festivities. I returned to Spain with them the day after the wedding only on the standard 3 month tourist visa (not applied for...simply the stamp they put in your passport at the airport).

Once in Spain, we began the paperwork trail for a visa for me under the entitlement "regrupación familiar" (reuniting a family). This process entailed registering our American (Protestant) wedding with the Spanish authorities and getting our Libro de Familia.

Once I had the Libro de Familia, I could apply for the visa at the nearest Spanish consulate to my USA address. In my case it was New York City since I am from Philadelphia. Typically you present the paperwork and pick the visa up in a week or so. However, my husband "sweet talked" the woman handling immigration matters into processing all my paperwork on the same day since it was my sole purpose for returning to the states (other than to visit family and have a couple of nights out on the town with the girlfriends ) She agreed. I popped in to the consulate at 10 am, presented my documents and then was told to come back in 3 hours. So, I went shopping, had lunch, then went back and picked up the visa.

Yes, you have to go back to the states (or your country of origin) to pick up the visa. The USA also does this. The primary reason for this is that if the visa is declined for whatever reason (if you do everything right, there is no reason for it to be declined), then Spain doesn´t have to foot the bill to deport you. You have essentially deported yourself. It´s a matter of separating the chaff from the wheat and keeping out the riff raff.

Once I had the visa (good for 3 mos), I could apply for my residency. In applying for my residency, I needed to also submit an "offerta de empleo" (essentially a letter from a prospective employer stating its intention to hire me once my residency and work permit were approved)in order to be granted a permiso de trabajo (work permit) Being married to a Spaniard does not mean that I automatically have the right to work here. That is applied for separately. However if you process everything at the simultaneously, you save yourself a lot of hassle and unneccessary running around.

The paperwork has to be processed in the order that I mentioned:

1. Libro de Familia (needed to apply for the visa)
2. Visa issued from the Spanish consulate in your country of origin (needed to apply for the resident´s card and work permit)
2a. Oferta de empleo (needed to apply for the work permit)
3. Resident´s card. This is applied for in your local province in Spain. Is generally a 3-6 month process depending on where you apply (bigger cities = longer wait). I applied through Segovia and like clockwork had the residency approved 3 mos. later.

I hope this helps to clarify matters for you!

Good luck!

So what type of visa did you have to apply for? A special residency visa or something like?

Chica, after reading the process you had to go through, it makes me tired just thinking about it, and feel overwhelmed And what Navado and Nuria wrote, sounds a bit less overwhelming, and even implies that you can remain in Spain longer than 90 days without a Visa, if I was married to my Spaniard, so I guess there is more than one way to go about this. I guess it depends if one doesn't mind to return to the USA, after getting married in Spain, to get their Visa, which would probably be processed a lot faster, BUT I have one question, if you marry in Spain, will the USA recognize the marriage if you return to the US for the visa? I've read somewhere some say yes, and others say no, so does anyone know for a fact which it is?
Oh, btw, my Apostille Seal birth certificate from Germany, is on it's way to me. It was so much easier than I have expected, and they were so helpful, as well as you guys(I'm a New Yorker,guys=gals too ) were, so again, I want to say muchas gracias to all, for all the help and being so kind hearted . I really do appreciate it, and hope one day I can help one of you guys/gals with something. SMILE !!!
LittleWing-who loves to fly so freely from her soul.....

Little Wing --

Nevado writes:
I could not agree more! Getting a straight answer is next to impossible. It seems that one government agency does not talk to the other. The process isn´t hard, just exasperating because no one gives the straight answers.

We learned a lot of information AFTER the fact. For example, had we stayed in the USA for a week after our wedding we could have processed the paperwork for the libro de familia AND get the Visa (for reuniting the family .. husband & I) at the Spanish Consulate in NYC in one shot. Then we could have returned to Spain and begun the paperwork for my residency immediately. So, I would have gotten my residency in August or September of 2001 instead of March 2002.

However, we learned the hard way. I got to Spain on a tourist visa (good for 90 days), and in May processed for the Libro de Familia in Madrid. Due to the high volume of applications that they process in Madrid, plus the summer vacation, getting just the Libro was a 4 month ordeal. (We returned to the States in the meantime for my sis´s wedding and therefore renewed my tourist visa).

I was due to fly out in September to get my Visa in NYC when the horrific and unfortunate 11th of September happened leaving a lot in the lurch including concerns about travel safety. Sooo, it wasn´t until November that I got the visa and December began to process for the residency.

So, my word of advice is if you get married in the USA and plan on living in Spain afterwards, don´t fly out until you have processed and gotten both your Libro de Familia and Visa (reuniting a family) at the local Spanish Consulate. You will save yourself a lot of headaches...and travel!

LittleWind,
I got married in Spain and my marriage is valid here USA. My brother got married in USA and it is valid in Spain
I got married in a church, my brother in court. We didn't have to translate our marriage certificate to English or Spanish.
So far we didn't have any problem with people accepting our marriage certificates either here (USA) or Spain
Nuria

MAybe I'm a little late with my reply, maybe not. I don't know how long it takes to get married in Spain, because I was married to a Spaniard here in the US. We are planning on moving back to Spain by the end of the year so we wanted to get all of our papers in order. We went to the Spanish Consulate here in LA, taking with us our passports, and our marriage certificate, and within five minutes everything was arranged, they told me that about a month before leaving, I should come by to get my residency and my work visa. Easy as pie. No problems, and no hassle.

how long did the process take in the states? I will have to go back to get a different visa and then come here and wait 3-6 months for residency and work permits to go through, so how would the wait compare in the states?

Does anyone know the process if both of us are from the US and wanting to get married in Madrid Spain? What does the paperwork consist of and does it have to be trranslated? Do you recommend anywhere to have the wedding for just the two of us, no guests?

Que bruto! I should have read the whole "the marriage process?" post section before writing my post above under another section. It was very helpful. The links were great and it was encouraging to read the step by step process of you guys going through the maze. But even after reading it I still have a couple questions.

Still, I would like to know if the same processes apply to residents of Panama and other countries. And once all the paperwork is done, will I be able to study as if I were from Spain? And again, do the Spanish authorities (either in the US or Spain) verify that it is a "real" marriage, and not just a marriage for residency purposes?

Here's my plan, I'd love to hear what you all who have done this before think. Go to Spain on the 90 day tourist visa, marry an Española (for purely residential reasons) and go back to the states, get my "regrupación familiar" visa and then back to Spain to get the residency. What I am confused on is whether that residency will give me the option to work and study freely or not. Chica mentioned that she had to go and separately apply for the work permit along with the specific oferta de trabajo. But later, Mencey got the residency AND work visa State-side. Anyone have a clarification or comments on marriages in Spain that are for residency purposes only? Thanks. Jakob

Jakob writes:
As part of the residency application process, besides all the paperwork, the Spanish gov´t assigns the local police/Guardia Civil to do a background (I suppose criminal) check as well as an additional documentation check at the claimed address. Generally, from what I understand, the police check with the neighbors to see if there have been any complaints and/or if they know the applicant (in this case me). I was visited by the Guardia Civil (our town doesn´t have its own police force) at our house. They asked for me when my husband answered the door and asked him his relationship to me. My husband invited them into the house, but they resisted at first, they just wanted to see me and my paperwork. However, since it was pooring rain outside, my husband insisted that they come in.

So they came inside and reviewed my passport, asked me how long I had been in Spain asked if I was working. Certainly since they were inside the house, they aprovecharon de la oportunidad to look around the livingroom. There is no doubt (by our furnishings and wedding pics) that we are married and quite settled in where we are living.

Hope this helps answer some of your questions.