Travel itinerary with kids

Hi, I thought I would share our upcoming travel itinerary. You have all been so helpful with past items. I was hoping you can share any insights, wonders, and/or cautions with me. I am especially interested in suggestions from parents (I know you are out there)

We will be four. Mommy, Daddy, and two girls 5 & 3. I am in Madrid. The rest of the fam flies in from SF, Cal.

30 Mar mid-morning arrival; bus to Granada (the worst day). Night near Plaza Nueva, Granada
31 Mar Granada/Alhambra
01 Apr Granada/Alhambra
02 Apr Train Granada-Algeciras; bus to Tarifa
03 Apr Tarifa
04 Apr Tarifa
05 Apr Tarifa --day trip to Tangiers??
06 Apr Tarifa
07 Apr Bus to Puerto de Santa Maria/Cadiz
08 Apr Puerto de Santa Maria/Cadiz
09 Apr Puerto de Santa Maria/Cadiz
10 Apr PM/Cadiz w/afternoon train to Madrid
11 Apr Madrid and afternoon flight

I will not have seen the little ones for four months, thus the extended sleepy time in Tarifa (or actually nearby at one of the Costa de Luz beach hotels).

Restaurants, beautiful streets, acitivities, fun/low key stuff, music, art, etc.

Two other things. Yes, Sevilla is missing. But so are a million other places (gosh, I am falling in love with Spain). Also, one question: several locals here in Madrid have cautioned me wrt the Albaycin. Even on this board, I have seen several warnings not to walk around at night there. Is it really that bad. I mean I lived near Atocha train station. Or is it simply dark?

Thanks again, looking forward to the contributions!!
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He who loves his almohada...

I lived in Granada for six months, the Albaicin is not dangerous if you go in a group. I have walked around at night up there with just my girlfriend and had no problems. The warnings are there because it is very dark, the streets are narrow and steep and there are not many people around. During the day I find there to be no danger at all. The Sacramonte is a different story, if you venture to the caves area where the gypsies are things can get a bit seedy. Id suggest taking a cab from Plaza Nueva down below or saving any adventure there for during the day. In addition I consider myself to be an expert on Granada, if there is any off the beaten path things in Granada you would like to know about let me know- dc

I also lived in Granada last year...and I agree with the previous poster. Actually, the Albaicin was one of my favorite areas of Granada. The sacromonte can be really neat, but not one to wander alone in the dark. That said, I was in that area on a weekly basis alone, during the day, and had no problem. Use your common sense and you should be ok.
I absolutely love Granada, I'm sure you will too.
Good Luck!
Kelly

coop,
great. An expert. I love my girls to death. So anything that would enchant them, from really neat places to places to buy neat hand made dolls, matones, etc.

And for my wife and I, any place where we can breathe in the whole experience. They'll be pretty tired, esp that first day. So a place to chill, sangria, music, vistas.

Not into monuments, but want to soak in the vibe. Perhaps streets with tons of flowers...A cafe. A teahouse. running water...OK, now I am getting silly, but I think you know what I mean...Thanks!! ANd hey, suggest away, any neat "undiscovered" places. Our agenda has only the ALhambra and relaxation.

Granada Adventures: A couple lesser talked about places-
1. Parque Garcia Lorca- Is an amazing park at the bottom of the city, If i remember correctly it is off Calle Arabial, it had football fields of rose bushes and some fountains, its almost all locals and you can just grab a bench a take in the sun and the surrondings.

2. There is a park off the road that leads to the Alhambra, it is off to the right at the end of a parking lot, near one of the big hotels up there. There are gardens and a fantastic view of the city below. When your up at the Alhambra consider taking a look, there are two wooden doors that lead to the entrance. the only problem is that the park has limited hours, so I suggest taking a look when you are up there to visit the Alhambra. There is also a pond with some geece and a small fortress kind of thing, I think your kids would enjoy as well.

3. Make sure to find the Mirador de San Nicolas in the Albiacin a view of the Alhambra and city like no other, this is fairly well known but there are normally gypsies playing music people banging on drums etc, you can follow the signs if you walk or take a taxi. Right below the Mirador, you can see it from the lookout point on the street below, is an outdoor bar/resteraunt built almost over the edge of the cliff. Kids are more than welcome.

Feel free to wander, Granada is great for that- hope this helps -DC

My kids loved the Mirador not because of the view but because of the performances by the gypsies. There was also a wedding in the small church near by and all the guests come to the Mirador for photos.

Why so long in Tarifa?

El puerto has a place called Casa Nº6 that has family rooms. It is a gorgeous two room suite. One room has a big bed and the other has two rwin beds. It is a Bed and Breakfast which is alos nice. The folks there were wonderful and it was a great place ot be with the kids.

It is easy to visit the surrounding cities from El Puerto. You might be able to still do Sevilla. Don't miss the horses in Jerez. It would be great for your kids!!

My time to write is limited because I leave in a couple days for Spain and have tons to do to get ready. My family is not going so it means double duty for me. If you search the site you will find lots of great info on previous threads.

I think your kids would love Ronda by the way...

Being so close, I think you should consider a daytrip to Sevilla on 9 Apr (viernes de Semana Santa) to experience the religious Processions. Regional rail trains run hourly between Cadiz & Sevilla and all stop at el Puerto. Buses between Cadiz & Sevilla depart from right next to the Port in Cadiz and from the Prado de San Sebastian bus station in Sevilla.

Semana Santa is high season at places on Costa de la Luz. Expect to pay high season prices.

Also, are you aware that there's a ferryboat between el Puerto and Cadiz? In el Puerto it departs from the river across the parking lot from Hotel Santa Maria and in Cadiz from the Port of Cadiz.

I would scrub any thoughts about a day trip to Tangier, especially considering that you have small children.

thanks for the responses so far. Why so long in Tarifa? We are under no illusion about traveling with two little ones. After a 18 hour flight and 2 solid days of pounding the pavement in Granada, we will want to relax and reacquaint ourselves--again, we have not seen each other for four months and they are little (3 and 5). From Tarifa, we can explore some of the neighboring towns, including Ronda and Arocs, but as half-day trips from a base of operations.

Would love to experience Sevilla, Ronda, Arcos,etc. propoerly, but when compiling a list, before too long it is a Japanese-style bus tour (no offensive intended, but it is true). No thanks. IMHO, Spain is meant to savor. WHen I studied in Firenze as a student many moons ago, my fondest memories were not of the sights but of the people and of people watching. Bottle of wine on the Spanish steps sure beat running around to see a dozen Roman "must-sees." No knock against Sevilla whatsoever, because I do plan to go. But a day and a half would turn into a must-do, a very anti-vacation sentiment. The girls will love Sevilla when they are older.

As far as nixing Tangiers, why the cold shoulder? I have never been to Northen Africa, so what are the pros and cons? I have no prob substituting in a day trip to other Andalucian towns, but I am curious a to folks' experiences.

Thanks again! A

It is more risky and I am afraid that being American increases the risk. We are valued for our money. If you go, you need to be very careful. The school I go to has trips there and they always have disclaimers and warnings posted before people sign up disclosing the dangers. Those who have gone on the trip have always had fun, but it is very different.

There are so many wonderful places in southern Spain that I would save it for a time when the little ones can better appreciate the different culture.

I have not been to Tarifa so I do not know much about it. I did do some research on Estapona and the famous golf courses around San Rogue and think it might be very beautiful.

I love stay put when I am in Spain and spend time relaxing. You are wise not to plan daytrips because you can always decide not to go if you find that you all are tired.

I will be walking the beaches of Málaga in just a few days!!

Sel,
That's interesting to know. Having only stayed in Cordoba for a few days, I can only imagine that the farther south, the closer the semblance with Morocco (so I was told today). I guess I was fancying a really funky and fundamentally different experience. It was not to be the highlight of the trip, no easily dropped. Still if there are other opinions, will take them under advice.

BTW, Sel, any specific places between in the area around Tarifa and Cadiz worth going to with little kids?

Thanks, A

We did not spent time in that area so I do not have any suggestions. I would not miss the Royal Andalucian horse show in Jerez, though. http://www.realescuela.org/ We got there when the grounds opened and spent time watcj¡hing then train and exercise horses before the show. The show was also great. We took the train there from El Puerto and it was a favorite of my kids. They wanted to return and do it a second time, but we ran out of time.

Almohada writes: In Tangier, you can expect to be met as you debark by countless beggars, sellers of all kinds of Moroccan merchandise (incl. Hashish), 'Guides' and jostlers (i.e., pickpockets). It's difficult for a visitor to distinguish between them. Everywhere you go, you will have beggars: almsgiving is one of the 5-Tenets of Islam and begging is a profession in the Islamic world.
Maiming small children so that they will be more successful beggars is a practice not unknown in the Islamic world.

If a person is really 'down and out,' he (or she) may invoke the name of Allah when they approach you to ask for money: If you do not give of your own, you may be found guilty of a crime in Morocco and sentenced to imprisonment or fined. So listen carefully to what the beggar says. The fact that you don't understand Moroccan Arabic is not a defense.

Tourism may be Tangier's primary business. It was formerly a Free Port and center of International Banking but that all changed more than 40-years ago. Back then, it was displaced in that role by Beirut, Lebanon.

Eddie,
so I take it that the thought of stumbling about a Moroccan goods market and being anonymous enough to enjoy the funk, music, and people watching would be hopelessly naive?

I am happy go and lucky, but it is probably the once chance for who knows how long for wife and I to explore (at least superficially) a well-known Northern African town.

But it things have degnerated into "rip off the tourist," then I would pass.

ANd Sel, the horse idea sounds great for the girls. I think an early morn alot sound be great. WHat time of day would you recommend going?

I'd nix the day trip to Tangiers. It's like visiting Tijuana for the day because you want to explore Mexico. If you've ever been to Mexico it's a beautiful country but Tijuana is an awful border town.

I echo previous posters comments about somehow adding in Sevilla. Cut a day or 2 in Tarifa (that would have been the daytrip to Tangiers and wouldn't have been relaxing anyways) and in Pta Santa Maria to spend time strolling the city that is the soul of Andalucia. (However, at this late time it may not be even an option because of Semana Santa).

I'd definately start finalizing and making accomodation plans ASAP due to the holiday week.

Yes, and it could be dangerous. Are your children fair-haired? If so, you will see them being stared at continuously; and, depending on the 'going price' for fair-haired girls, someone may even attempt to 'snatch' them away.

If you do decide to go, keep your girls close; don't ever allow anyone to come between them and you and keep them in your sight at al times. This ain't your local shopping mall!

We have travelled to Europe 5 times with our kids, now ages 9 and 5. The best advice I can give you is to spend the first night in Madrid. Kids are famous for getting carsick when they are jet lagging. A friend arrived with his 3 year old and jumped in a car to Granada. The child was puking the whole way. My brother had the same experience on a bus full of 5th graders who arrived in Geneva from the US. We always stay put that first day, have leisurely day and try to keep the kids up until at least 10pm. Your kids will be crossing 9 time zones and could really benefit from a stress free arrival and some fun. Head over to the amusement park at Casa del Campo and they will have no trouble staying up.

Second, I have found that public transportation, as opposed to a rental car, is MUCH more difficult with kids. Every connection is a source of stress because you are on someone else's schedule and that schedule has no leeway. Flexibility means less stress for our family. If you change your mind, have your wife reserve a car from the States, as the rates may be better.

My overriding theme is to do as little moving around as possible. Especially when our kids were little. We have great memories of hanging out in beach towns and getting into the rhythm of a place. If you have a car, you could stay outside of Granada in one of the agroturismo places. I have researched it (but had to cancel) and some farms look like so much fun for kids and less than 30 minutes into town. A kitchen with kids helps, too.

You guys will have a great time. Just try to think like a 3 year old when planning! :p

Hi Jana (Czech by chance ?

Yeah I struggled over that first day. But I appreciate the reminder. Most of the trip is built around them---iwth that first doozy a notable exception. I'll make sure they are OK after arrival. They can crash at my apaprtment here in Madrid. And thanks for bringing up the possible jetlag-car sickness connection. For little ones, they have already logged a good number of miles. That said, they have not done a transoceanic flight. But yes, I will be extra vigilent, thanks .
Kids are famous for getting carsick when they are jet lagging. A friend arrived with his 3 year old and jumped in a car to Granada. The child was puking the whole way. My brother had the same experience on a bus full of 5th graders who arrived in Geneva from the US. We always stay put that first day, have leisurely day and try to keep the kids up until at least 10pm. Your kids will be crossing 9 time zones and could really benefit from a stress free arrival and some fun. Head over to the amusement park at Casa del Campo and they will have no trouble staying up.

Second, I have found that public transportation, as opposed to a rental car, is MUCH more difficult with kids. Every connection is a source of stress because you are on someone else's schedule and that schedule has no leeway. Flexibility means less stress for our family. If you change your mind, have your wife reserve a car from the States, as the rates may be better.

My overriding theme is to do as little moving around as possible. Especially when our kids were little. We have great memories of hanging out in beach towns and getting into the rhythm of a place. If you have a car, you could stay outside of Granada in one of the agroturismo places. I have researched it (but had to cancel) and some farms look like so much fun for kids and less than 30 minutes into town. A kitchen with kids helps, too.

On public transport, geez, I am a total car guy. However, here in Spain, I am completely comfortable with the trains and buses and not too entused about driving the mountain passages around Granada. I am sure that if I go ahead of time, I would be totally psyched, but like I said, I am unfamiliar. I guess I also planned the trip around trains since with Semana Santa it may get awfully packed on the roads (out of Madrid, it will be insane). And excuse #3, I am getting risk averse in my advancing wimpiness. The idea of having our car broken into does not sit well. I want a headache free scene. When in doubt and in pain/fatigue, we'll taxi. But Your comments are well taken and I will absolutely make sure I leave the military stripes (figuratively) on the shelf and keep a mellow time table.

And to Cathy M, the reasoning behind Puerto SM to Semana Santa is that I heard that apart from Sevilla, it is one of the best places to experience SS. That said and given the pointed feedback from Eddie and others, I will skip Tangiers and try to build in a daytrip to Sevilla. Yeah, I know, it is not the same. But paying couble the price of everything amidst thousands of people just isn't our scene, especially not with the little ones in tow. We just spent a five days in Cordoba and Toledo. We loved it for its quiet charm. Perhaps when the girls are older and they can appreciate the noises of feria-atmospheres we'll do the entire Semana Santa in Sevilla. But until then I'll leave the fun to the younger crowd on the board.

Of course, the more I write, the harder I will try to build in Sevilla! Hosh, Spain is great, isn't it???

Cheers, A

I hope you have a wonderful trip!!!

Thanks Sel, very kind of you. I am 2/3 through the Tales from the Alhambra by Washington Irving. Such BEAUTIFUL writing. Gosh, I am a lush, a romantic at heart. BUt, more than anything, I am soooo looking forward to seeing my two little ones (6 y 3). It has been since New Year's day.

For all you long-distance relationship folks out there, while absence makes the heart grow fonder, such absence is only tolerable when one knows there will be a reunion around the corner. And for those of you wondering, the seemingly strange choice of Tarifa simply means that my tourist attractions will be my kids rather than any given city.

Best, A
P.S. And come out and play cricket!!!!! See my post on the Food Drnk Entertainment...Come share the love!