Madrid to Paris

Help! We are having major problems with this leg of our trip. I knew there was an overnight train from Madrid to Paris but when I went to make reservations today I found it does not have couchettes only sleepers. They want $159 per adult (there are 3) and $120 for one child. This seems totally outrageous. I could stay in a very fancy hotel for $600. They do not even have reclining seats on this train, so our options seem to be pay out the $600 or spend the night sitting up and arrive stiff and exhausted. The train leaves at 7:00 in the evening and arrives at 8:30 the next morning, it never occured to me there would not be better sleeping arrangement on it. Have any of you done this and if so what did you feel like the next morning? Keeping in mind we are in our mid 40s Any one else have options for us? Thanks!

I took this train with my wife in '94. The particular train we were on was an older train that was not comfortable at all. To top it off we had to unload in the middle of the night into a small train station at the border and transfer trains. We just sat in the seats all night and yes, we did arrive very tired in Madrid. Sorry...this is not what you wanted to hear but that's my experience.

Leche

[This message has been edited by Leche (edited 03-09-2001).]

What about flying to Paris? Spanair had an incredible offer (9800 pesetas Madrid - París return subject to very restrictive conditions). Now they have not-so-incredible prices but I think it's cheaper to fly than to take the train to Paris.

Regards,

Antonio

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The best tips from your favourite hostal in Madrid.
Hostal Chelo at http://www.chelo.com

[This message has been edited by MadridMan (edited 03-10-2001).]

You could also rent a car from Europcar in Paris and return it in Spain. You will be able to stop when and where you want and its got to be less expensive than the train. Or, fly as Antonio mentioned.

Hi there,
i did the same trip last year...and well, i am not sure what you mean by 'couchettes'?!!
I stayed in a room with 3 other people, there were 4 beds(bunk beds). I didn't think it was too bad. I mean, i felt scummy for not showering, but other than that it was fine.
But i agree with Antonio, you should book a flight with SpanAir, cheaper(9.800pts), faster and much more comfortable.
Saludos,
Rhonda

Thanks for the info but it seems the SpanAir special is over. The best rate I could get from them was $928 (US) for the four of us. This may be because our flight day is Good Friday? That was for 2 adults one student and 1 child. Rhonda, what you are talking about seems to be what was called a couchette to me (it was described as 4-6 small beds in a compartment). Do you remember what you were charged for it? I've been told over here that they only offer "private" sleeping compartments on this train and those are also 4 beds but with a bit more room and possibly a sink? The price on these are supposed to be $159 per person though? Someone else suggested flying Madrid to Brussels via Virgin Express they charge approximately $60 per person and then using our Eurorail pass to get from Brussels to Paris. This would probably involve another night in a motel in either Brussels or Paris for us but its a bit cheaper then the "sleeper" compartment on the train. Has anyone ridden Madrid to Paris train more recently then 1994? Just how uncomfortable is it? Any thoughts on any of this would be appreciated. Thanks for your help!

The train switch was because Spanish railroads use broad gauge, which is being converted gradually to the standard European one. Trains now have variable axles which switch widths automatically at the border so you don't have to change.

The trenhotels to París are somewhat pricy, however 150 seems a better deal than you would find with an airline.

In '96 I took the train from Madrid to Nice. As I recall, we departed around noon and arrived Nice around 7:00 the following morning. Sitting up sleeping is somewhat less than desirable, but I survived. On the return, I booked a couchette. In my opinion, that was even LESS comfortable than sitting up for 20+ hours. A couchette is NOT for the claustrophobic! It was a compartment no more than about 8'X7' - that's 6 people in approx. 56 sq. ft. with 6 bunk beds. I was on the top bunk with about 12" clearance. It seemed rather odd to me to try sleeping with 5 TOTAL strangers! So far as doing it again, personally, I wouldn't pay extra for this accomodation. Definately not my idea of good time!

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msj

Asterault,

Are you sure about this gradual conversion of gauges?. I know they built the high speed line from Madrid to Seville using the international standard and they are doing the same on the new high speed lines to Barcelona, Valencia, Valladolid... But I never heard of any conversion of the old lines.

Hi again,
that's wierd about the SpanAir deal, i guess it's because it's Good Friday. Anyways, i took the trip in 1999. And it cost me about 30.000pts(return trip), i dunno what that is in US dollors. Anyways, i didn't think it was really uncomfortable. Well if you know the people in your room, then it's much better i guess. I was with an old lady who i didn't know, who had a hard time controlling her bodily functions, so it wasn't a great experience. But I wouldn't tell you not to do it. If you can't get a flight, then take the train! It will be fine, just remember you're not in a hotel, you're inside a
tube-like vehicle travelling at high speeds aross the continent. With that in mind, i think the trip will be fine.... Bring some cards or board games and have some fun!
Saludos,
Rhonda

Forget the train. Log on to www.europebyair.com. You can buy passes for $99 each to fly from Madrid to Paris ($89 if you use an american express card). You can use your passes on Spanair from Madrid to Paris. You can use the passes (more like coupons) for many different smaller airlines all over Europe. Last year we flew from Barcelona to Venice(on Alpi Eagles)--it was much cheaper, and of course, faster than the train. This year we'll be using passes to fly Brussels-Milan (virgin express), Nice-Paris (air liberte), Paris-Madrid, and Porto-Brussels (Portugalia). Try it, it might work for you. Trains are fun, but if they cost more than flying and take longer, what's the point?

By the way, MadridMan, thanks for this great site. From the recommendations on this board, we've made reservations at Hostal Tijcal for July.
happy travels,
aidance

[This message has been edited by MadridMan (edited 03-17-2001).]

Aidance, thanks for the information about europebyair.com. The $99 seems so cheap. Is there a catch? What airline is used? All other airlines want over $300 for a one way ticket from Paris to Madrid.

Thanks

No catch, really, to use the flight passes, except that you have to buy at least 3 passes. You have to buy them in advance, in the States before you leave. The passes are good for a year, I believe. It works out great for us, because we have been traveling as a family of 4, so we always need four passes per leg.
Many of the smaller, independent airlines accept Europe by air passes as payment. You only have to pay the airport taxes extra--a few dollars per person. Europe by air will make the reservations for you on all the legs you need. The nice thing is, if you change your mind on dates or routes, you can easily take a different flight--you still have your coupon. The website shows all the various routes, though the route map isn't up to date. Call the 800 number on the site, and they'll give you all the latest information, sell you the passes, and make your reservations. (they even called me to tell me of a time change on a flight I had reserved)
The Paris-Madrid flights are on Spanair. You check in, give them your flight pass, pay the airport tax, and go. Elsewhere on this BB, I'm reading bad reports about Spanair, so I hope all is well for that leg. Last year, Alpi Eagles (Barcelona-Venice) was the best flight we took. Comfortable leather seats, wine and good Italian food served in coach. The plane was half empy in July.
Happy travels!

Another option for an inexpensive flight between Paris and Madrid is offered through Europebyair.com for an AirEuropa flight that leaves late in the evening for $150 one way. It is difficult to book on the web but you can call 1-888-387-2479 for very helpful agents who will process the booking.

With the europebyair passes you don't need to buy 3 passes. They are each $99 and you need only buy one - at least thats what I did and they certainly never said otherwise.

Pues Antonio, tienes razón, no estoy seguro sobre la 'conversión' de las vías al tamaño Europeano. Creo que han 'abandonado' este proyecto o algo como así...